Without posting a long rambling thread the short version is I took the mustang in for a smog, ended up getting failed because the timing was off and the previous owner had destroyed most of the charcoal canister lines and etc. The shop finally sorted it all out and now with the equipment all in place and the timing set back to stock specs it's suddenly throwing out high NOx numbers. The shop is attempting a diagnosis but at this point I'm about ready to pick the car up and fix it myself and take it somewhere else for a smog if I can figure out what the problem is.
Timing retard=engine running hot/high NOx?
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Nothing? I just had new cats installed, installed a new set of bbk unequal shorties, did a tune up and when I brought her in she ran clean...passed with flying colors. Apparently the timing was advanced 12* so they reset the timing back to stock, replaced the vacuum lines and repaired the charcoal canister and now I've got high NOx numbers at 15 and 25mph.
Patience, Grasshopper...
How to pass emissions testing:
High NO - high combustion temps - retard timing, check EGR for operation.
High CO – Rich condition - fuel pressure too high, check O2 sensors, replace air filter, Clean MAF element.
High HC – Lean misfire, vacuum leak, common misfire due to worn or weak ignition system components. On rare occasions, an overly rich mixture may be the cause. Do the ethanol/E85 fill up as suggested.
High CO & HC - Cat converters, smog pump, and smog pump controls.
How to pass emissions testing:
1.) Make sure all the emissions gear the car was made with is present and connected up properly. That includes a working smog pump and cats. The smog tech will do a visual check to make sure that all the original equipment is present and connected up.
2.) Make sure that you have fresh tune up with spark plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, fuel & air filters. An oil & filter change is a good idea while you are at it.
3.) Dumping The computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 21-Jun-2011. Removed the link to BATAuto.com and troublecodes.net instructions on codes and how to dump them. Post the codes you get and I will post 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes.
Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
4.) Post the codes and get help to fix them. Don’t try to pass with codes not fixed. Clearing the computer just temporarily removes them from memory, it doesn’t fix the problem that caused the code to be set.
5.) Be sure to do the testing on a hot engine. Drive for 15-20 minutes prior to taking the test to get operating temps up into the normal range. Do not shut off the engine while waiting for your turn on the test machine. An engine up to full operating temperature puts out fewer emissions.
Some basic theory to clarify how things work is in order…
EGR System theory and testing
The EGR shuts off at Wide Open Throttle (WOT), so it has minimal effect on performance. The addition of exhaust gas drops combustion temperature, increases gas mileage and reduces the tendency of the engine to ping. It can also reduce HC emissions by reducing fuel consumption. The primary result of EGR usage is a reduction in NOx emissions.
The EGR system has a vacuum source (line from the intake manifold) that goes to the EVR, computer operated electronic vacuum regulator. The EVR is located on the back of the passenger side shock strut tower. The computer uses RPM, Load. and some other factors to tell the EVR to pass vacuum to open the EGR valve. The EGR valve and the passages in the heads and intake manifold route exhaust gas to the EGR spacer (throttle body spacer). The EGR sensor tells the computer how far the EGR valve is open. Then computer adjusts the signal sent to the EVR to hold, increase or decrease the vacuum. The computer adds spark advance to compensate for the recirculated gases and the slower rate they burn at.
Troubleshooting:
There should be no vacuum at the EGR valve when at idle. If there is, the EVR (electronic vacuum regulator) mounted on the backside of the passenger side wheelwell is suspect. Check the vacuum line plumbing to make sure the previous owner didn’t cross the vacuum lines.
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds. (the diagram says 88 GT, but the EGR part is the same for 86-93 Mustangs)
The EGR sensor is basically a variable resistor, like the volume control on a radio. One end is 5 volt VREF power from the computer (red/orange wire). One end is computer signal ground (black/white), and the middle wire (brown/lt green) is the signal output from the EGR sensor. It is designed to always have some small voltage output from it anytime the ignition switch is the Run position. That way the computer knows the sensor & the wiring is OK. No voltage on computer pin 27 (brown/lt green wire) and the computer thinks the sensor is bad or the wire is broken and sets code 31. The voltage output can range from approximately .6-.85 volt.
The EVR regulates vacuum to the EGR valve to maintain the correct amount of vacuum. The solenoid coil should measure 20-70 Ohms resistance. The regulator has a vacuum feed on the bottom which draws from the intake manifold. The other vacuum line is regulated vacuum going to the EGR valve. One side of the EVR electrical circuit is +12 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side of the electrical circuit is the ground path and is controlled by the computer. The computer switches the ground on and off to control the regulator solenoid.
EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones
EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones
to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.
connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connnect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.
Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).
apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum
if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.
if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.
if engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
if not the EVR has failed
EGR test jig
To test the computer and wiring to the computer, you can use a test light across the EVR wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker. If the test light remains on the computer or the wiring is suspect.
To check the EVR to computer wiring, disconnect the EVR connector and connect one end of the Ohmmeter to the dark green wire EVR wiring. Remove the passenger side kick panel and use a 10 MM socket to remove the computer connector from the computer. Set the Ohmmeter to high range and connect the other ohmmeter lead to ground. You should see an infinite open circuit indication or a reading greater than 1 Meg Ohm. If you see less than 200 Ohms, the dark green wire has shorted to ground somewhere.
Late Model Restoration may still have the Ford Racing M-12071-N302 kit with the EGR valve & sensor along with the ACT & ECT sensors for $45. See http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/iwwida.pvx?;item?item_no=M12071N302 1&comp=LRS for more details
How to pass emissions testing:
High NO - high combustion temps - retard timing, check EGR for operation.
High CO – Rich condition - fuel pressure too high, check O2 sensors, replace air filter, Clean MAF element.
High HC – Lean misfire, vacuum leak, common misfire due to worn or weak ignition system components. On rare occasions, an overly rich mixture may be the cause. Do the ethanol/E85 fill up as suggested.
High CO & HC - Cat converters, smog pump, and smog pump controls.
How to pass emissions testing:
1.) Make sure all the emissions gear the car was made with is present and connected up properly. That includes a working smog pump and cats. The smog tech will do a visual check to make sure that all the original equipment is present and connected up.
2.) Make sure that you have fresh tune up with spark plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, fuel & air filters. An oil & filter change is a good idea while you are at it.
3.) Dumping The computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 21-Jun-2011. Removed the link to BATAuto.com and troublecodes.net instructions on codes and how to dump them. Post the codes you get and I will post 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes.
Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
4.) Post the codes and get help to fix them. Don’t try to pass with codes not fixed. Clearing the computer just temporarily removes them from memory, it doesn’t fix the problem that caused the code to be set.
5.) Be sure to do the testing on a hot engine. Drive for 15-20 minutes prior to taking the test to get operating temps up into the normal range. Do not shut off the engine while waiting for your turn on the test machine. An engine up to full operating temperature puts out fewer emissions.
Some basic theory to clarify how things work is in order…
EGR System theory and testing
The EGR shuts off at Wide Open Throttle (WOT), so it has minimal effect on performance. The addition of exhaust gas drops combustion temperature, increases gas mileage and reduces the tendency of the engine to ping. It can also reduce HC emissions by reducing fuel consumption. The primary result of EGR usage is a reduction in NOx emissions.
The EGR system has a vacuum source (line from the intake manifold) that goes to the EVR, computer operated electronic vacuum regulator. The EVR is located on the back of the passenger side shock strut tower. The computer uses RPM, Load. and some other factors to tell the EVR to pass vacuum to open the EGR valve. The EGR valve and the passages in the heads and intake manifold route exhaust gas to the EGR spacer (throttle body spacer). The EGR sensor tells the computer how far the EGR valve is open. Then computer adjusts the signal sent to the EVR to hold, increase or decrease the vacuum. The computer adds spark advance to compensate for the recirculated gases and the slower rate they burn at.
Troubleshooting:
There should be no vacuum at the EGR valve when at idle. If there is, the EVR (electronic vacuum regulator) mounted on the backside of the passenger side wheelwell is suspect. Check the vacuum line plumbing to make sure the previous owner didn’t cross the vacuum lines.
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds. (the diagram says 88 GT, but the EGR part is the same for 86-93 Mustangs)
The EGR sensor is basically a variable resistor, like the volume control on a radio. One end is 5 volt VREF power from the computer (red/orange wire). One end is computer signal ground (black/white), and the middle wire (brown/lt green) is the signal output from the EGR sensor. It is designed to always have some small voltage output from it anytime the ignition switch is the Run position. That way the computer knows the sensor & the wiring is OK. No voltage on computer pin 27 (brown/lt green wire) and the computer thinks the sensor is bad or the wire is broken and sets code 31. The voltage output can range from approximately .6-.85 volt.
The EVR regulates vacuum to the EGR valve to maintain the correct amount of vacuum. The solenoid coil should measure 20-70 Ohms resistance. The regulator has a vacuum feed on the bottom which draws from the intake manifold. The other vacuum line is regulated vacuum going to the EGR valve. One side of the EVR electrical circuit is +12 volts anytime the ignition switch is in the run position. The other side of the electrical circuit is the ground path and is controlled by the computer. The computer switches the ground on and off to control the regulator solenoid.
EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones
EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones
to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.
connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connnect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.
Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).
apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum
if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.
if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.
if engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
if not the EVR has failed
EGR test jig
To test the computer and wiring to the computer, you can use a test light across the EVR wiring connectors and dump the codes. When you dump the codes, the computer does a self test that toggles every relay/actuator/solenoid on and off. When this happens, the test light will flicker. If the test light remains on the computer or the wiring is suspect.
To check the EVR to computer wiring, disconnect the EVR connector and connect one end of the Ohmmeter to the dark green wire EVR wiring. Remove the passenger side kick panel and use a 10 MM socket to remove the computer connector from the computer. Set the Ohmmeter to high range and connect the other ohmmeter lead to ground. You should see an infinite open circuit indication or a reading greater than 1 Meg Ohm. If you see less than 200 Ohms, the dark green wire has shorted to ground somewhere.
Late Model Restoration may still have the Ford Racing M-12071-N302 kit with the EGR valve & sensor along with the ACT & ECT sensors for $45. See http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/iwwida.pvx?;item?item_no=M12071N302 1&comp=LRS for more details
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Well where I'm lost is I ran clean and passed the emissions portion with flying colors UNTIL they retarded the timing and repaired all the emissions equipment. If the shop can be believed, the timing was advanced 12* so they reset it back to stock and they repaired the damaged and missing lines to/from the charcoal canister, according to them that's all they've changed and the high NOx numbers came along due to that. 
It is not likely that the did work correctly and the NOx was higher than limits with minor mods like yours. Do the tech note to see what codes you personally come up with. Then read the EGR tech note and make sure the EGR is functioning properly.
Alright, I'm about fed up with the shop at this point so I'll call them and tell them to get her ready to be picked up. I wont at all be surprised it she suddenly doesn't run when I go to pick her up (followed by an offer to diagnose that as well if I'll leave the car there).
you can have you timing advanced up to 12* in cali and still pass if your engine is healthy..... stock is 10* and cali smog allows =/- 2 degrees... so 8* to 12* will still pass smog.. if your running premium gas at less than 12* your just letting the rest of the unburned fuel pass thru the tail pipes and then you'll get high nox...
id say check your car for any codes like jrichker said (i did that long ass post and it really did work)... if you have no codes and your egr/vac lines are ok put your timing back to 12* or 11* on premium.. when i went to smog i had my car @ 8* on 87 octane w/ 1 gal of denatured alcohol to 3 gals of 87... i have bad cats.....
id say check your car for any codes like jrichker said (i did that long ass post and it really did work)... if you have no codes and your egr/vac lines are ok put your timing back to 12* or 11* on premium.. when i went to smog i had my car @ 8* on 87 octane w/ 1 gal of denatured alcohol to 3 gals of 87... i have bad cats.....
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