Hey i have an 85 5.0 gt hatch, five speed, and i want to swap in a 4.6 gt engine from a 03 mustang. whats the easiest way to do this?? Ibhave to swap everything over, seeing it is obd2 and fuel injected, is this swap even worth the trouble? If anybody has done this please let me know, If you havent but you have knowledge on swaps i would appreciate any help...
4.6 swap in 85 hatch
- Thread starter demon50
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I'll tell you demon, This thread pops up like about every 2-3 weeks. You can answer your own questions by looking back through this forum and you'll get your answer.
As for your "is it even worth it question" it all depends on why you're doing it.
1. Different??Yes. 99% of foxes still have a windsor OHV in them.
2. Easy/Difficult? Better know what you're doing. If you gotta pay somebody to do it, NO FRIGGIN WAY!
3. Practical? Not if you're looking for bang for the buck power.
It's your car. I have a 2v in mine. I wasn't looking for anything except #1 in my case. ( well other than the fact that I had it already)
As for your "is it even worth it question" it all depends on why you're doing it.
1. Different??Yes. 99% of foxes still have a windsor OHV in them.
2. Easy/Difficult? Better know what you're doing. If you gotta pay somebody to do it, NO FRIGGIN WAY!
3. Practical? Not if you're looking for bang for the buck power.
It's your car. I have a 2v in mine. I wasn't looking for anything except #1 in my case. ( well other than the fact that I had it already)
tunedin302
I AM the law!!!
It does really depend on what you're trying to achieve. As madmike pointed out, it is a "different" conversion in the fox bodies; however, it is certainly not the least expensive direction nor is it the most horsepower. The real appeal to the 4.6 is the drivability you get with the conversion. These DOHC motors are like sewing machines - silky smooth all over RPMs and, when done right, can be driven more often/further distances without some of the drivability issues that are common with a high hp windsor (rough idle, over heating, etc).
To do the 4.6 you will want to use MM K-member for the fox w/ the 4.6 engine mounts. That's a good starting place but it's just the beginning. I personally think that the electrical and fuel are big conversion issues with the 4.6 in a fox. You are right that many just swap over all of the electrical (dash wiring/speedo, etc). There are issues with placement of the door handles if you also don't do some type of hybrid conversion to the doors as well. If you want to keep the fox interior then look into a company called Florida 5.0. They will build you a gauge cluster that allows you to keep the fox interior and then you will have to splice the 4.6 wiring into the fox wiring harnesses. The wiring is not an easy task.
As for fuel, there are lots of opinions on how to do this, but if you don't want a sumped tank or fuel cell then I recommend you use a fuel tank from an 03/04 cobra (internally baffled). Since the fuel filler from the cobra won't match up to the foxbody you'll have to weld part of the fox filler tube to part of the cobra filler tube. Run some -8/-6 fuel lines and make it a return fuel system (unlike that used in the 03/04 cobra which was returnless).
Another option you may want to explore is putting in a new 5.0 OHC motor into your fox. Those motors can be had new for around $8K - much less than a new Cammer or 03/04 cobra motor (if you can even find them). FMS makes a plug-n-play like wiring adapter, Kooks makes header for the 5.0 in a fox, and K members are available w/ the 5.0 engine mounts. Personally, I think the 5.0 conversion is likely less expensive in the long run than doing a 4.6 conversion in a fox.
To do the 4.6 you will want to use MM K-member for the fox w/ the 4.6 engine mounts. That's a good starting place but it's just the beginning. I personally think that the electrical and fuel are big conversion issues with the 4.6 in a fox. You are right that many just swap over all of the electrical (dash wiring/speedo, etc). There are issues with placement of the door handles if you also don't do some type of hybrid conversion to the doors as well. If you want to keep the fox interior then look into a company called Florida 5.0. They will build you a gauge cluster that allows you to keep the fox interior and then you will have to splice the 4.6 wiring into the fox wiring harnesses. The wiring is not an easy task.
As for fuel, there are lots of opinions on how to do this, but if you don't want a sumped tank or fuel cell then I recommend you use a fuel tank from an 03/04 cobra (internally baffled). Since the fuel filler from the cobra won't match up to the foxbody you'll have to weld part of the fox filler tube to part of the cobra filler tube. Run some -8/-6 fuel lines and make it a return fuel system (unlike that used in the 03/04 cobra which was returnless).
Another option you may want to explore is putting in a new 5.0 OHC motor into your fox. Those motors can be had new for around $8K - much less than a new Cammer or 03/04 cobra motor (if you can even find them). FMS makes a plug-n-play like wiring adapter, Kooks makes header for the 5.0 in a fox, and K members are available w/ the 5.0 engine mounts. Personally, I think the 5.0 conversion is likely less expensive in the long run than doing a 4.6 conversion in a fox.
Mintsick
10 Year Member
^^ I can't possibly see how a Coyote swap would be cheaper than a 4.6 swap, I mean he didn't even state which flavor of 4.6 he wanted but even still there's no way.
Personally I don't see the point in it unless it's a 4v swap with boost, however I did see that Late Model Restoration put a ford racing 4.6 3v in a fairmont and the thing is wicked. I'm sure the 350hp version of that motor is not remotely cheap.
Personally I don't see the point in it unless it's a 4v swap with boost, however I did see that Late Model Restoration put a ford racing 4.6 3v in a fairmont and the thing is wicked. I'm sure the 350hp version of that motor is not remotely cheap.
tunedin302
I AM the law!!!
Sure - it all depends on the direction. I was saying that going for similar horsepower engines (03/04 Cobra engine vs 5.0 engine), the 5.0 is going to be a less expensive swap. Of course there are variables but I'm really impressed with all the manufacturers making parts for the 5.0 swap. It generally makes it easier and less time consuming than a 4.6. Granted - I'm all for the 4.6 swap but there are more headaches. Some decent articles:
Coyote 5.0L engine swap into Fox Body Mustang at Carlisle done in record time | Ford Mustang Heaven
Mustang Engine Swap Guide - Take Your Powerplant To The Next Level - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine
Here's some pricing too:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/products/2011-Mustang-50L-4V-Coyote-Engine-Swap-Parts
slow90coupe
Member
- Apr 25, 2010
- 272
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I would say pull the old engine out, then put the new engine in the same way.
But seriously, search and you will find your answer. Honestly not worth the swap IMO. Same power level, much more difficult to tinker with, plus parts are a zillion times more expensive.
Search my name, and you'll see both my threads. One is in my sig. Project Mod-Fox and Project 81 Hack Job.
Mr. Rustypwnz
Advanced Member
Na, the cobra conversion should still come in way under a 5.0 swap.
There is enough used parts available for an 03 cobra setup to do almost the entire thing without buying anything new other than the k member.
tunedin302
I AM the law!!!
My comparison was based on new parts. I think getting a wrecked 03/04 cobra and doing the swap to a fox would be cheaper than buying all new 5.0 parts. However, makes sense that the new 5.0 would cost more than a used 4.6 in that situation. New 4.6 would cost more than new 5.0. Either way, without careful planning, either swap can quickly nickel and dime you to death.
I know what you are saying. Unfortunately for 5.0 swappers there just isn't any used parts to pick from. You may be able to get the engine at a discount (how much i don't know), but the power control setup, headers and other necessary parts aren't going to come cheap or used, likely ever.
I love kooks, i really do i've seen tons of their parts first hand at the shop and for the most part i think they are the best exhaust parts period, but they come at a serious premium and in most events require use of an entire system not just the headers.
Putting a kooks setup in has got to cost $1500-$2000 by the time you are done, consider my cobra headers are stock (came on engine), i used a $150 SS bassani offroad x pipe for a 96 and the catback that was already on the car.
So on one hand i understand the new vs new comparison, on the other one setup has a distinct advantage by being available on the used market.
Nickel and dime you to death? You don't have to tell me.
I think the money i was least prepared to spend was on the fuel setup, maybe because the rest of the stuff i compiled and let the fuel system be a game time decision.
For a two valve though with no power adder, you should be able to get the adapters for the fox fuel lines, convert the rails to return and just use a 255lph pump in the stock tank.
tunedin302
I AM the law!!!
My buddy suggested i have the headers extrude honed, (i'm a fan of extrude honing) but cost per hp just couldn't justify it.
Before i made my last post, i checked kooks site, i thought it said the headers were about $1050.
tunedin302
I AM the law!!!
Right - the Kooks headers (top quality) for the 5.0/fox conversion are $1040ish. BBK released some 5.0/fox headers for around $550. I'm sure it's a situation where "you get what you pay for" but nice to see these companies are supporting the 5.0 conversion. Maybe a sign of more things to come!
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