New heads?

[mhjo]

I am running a 289 with mildly modified cam with lifters, new dual plane intake, free flow air intake, Mallory distributor, Edelbrock 500, HiPo manifolds and Dynomax VT mufflers.

Just wonder what to add in order to get more power. Someone told me 'get new heads'

Is this a good idea or are there better ideas? (within reasonable $$)

 

[golf4283]

You could probably get a set of E7TE heads off a late model 5.0 and do a little home porting to them. That's always a good bang for the buck.

If you wanna step it up more find a set of GT40 (Not the "p") heads. Those don't require any porting and will give you a really nice bump in power.

 

[blown65]

Depends on goals, I'd look at some aluminum heads if it was me.

 

[robbz28]

Be careful when you make your purchase, you need to know what kind of heads you currently have....meaning what combustion chamber size...if you have the 58cc chambers and buy some 62cc heads then you will lose compression and negate any gains you get in flow. Once you have figured out the combustion chamber size then I would probably go with something like some AFR or Patriot 165's for that 289, they flow great and will give you a noticable increase in power and weight savings of being aluminum (plus if you ever dropped a valve or damaged the heads you can repair the aluminum ones whereas cast is fit for the scrap heap afterward.

 

[mhjo]

They are certainly stock heads. Have no idea abour chamber size.

 

[blown65]

Be careful when you make your purchase, you need to know what kind of heads you currently have....meaning what combustion chamber size...if you have the 58cc chambers and buy some 62cc heads then you will lose compression and negate any gains you get in flow. Once you have figured out the combustion chamber size then I would probably go with something like some AFR or Patriot 165's for that 289, they flow great and will give you a noticable increase in power and weight savings of being aluminum (plus if you ever dropped a valve or damaged the heads you can repair the aluminum ones whereas cast is fit for the scrap heap afterward.

While Ill agree with most of this, the 4cc change would be a minor deal IMO. Just the weight savings of the aluminum heads would negate a compression ratio drop in itself.

AFR's or the Trick Flow heads would be both good choices. I know nothing of the Patriot heads.

 

[2+2GT]

Just wonder what to add in order to get more power. Someone told me 'get new heads'

Is this a good idea or are there better ideas? (within reasonable $$)

Hard to beat 'free'. Before you drop a grand on heads, try this. When I did it, it seemed like I'd put a stronger cam in it, except it also ran smoother.

289/302 Cylinder Head Port Matching

 

[Hack]

If it were me I would want to put AFR 185s on that engine. Some people will say 165, but I saw a test where the 185s were equal or better all through the RPM range to 165s on a 302 ci engine. It depends on your goals of course, but I would go straight to a nice aluminum head rather than doing a GT-40 and then doing all the work again in a few years to go to an aluminum head. Then you can upgrade the intake and exhaust to match when you have the cash. Also, the 185s will be even better when you go to the next step (stroker kit).

Of course going to a 351 would be even better since they will support more power...

..And then really a big block is better than a 351 since the big block can give you more cubes and support more power..

Maybe twin turbos then...

 

[PoppyMod]

Hi,
I tend to agree with 2+2GTs approach. In that, it appears "MHJO" is just looking for "more feel" in his "seat-o-meter". If he can optimize those stock heads for under $500, with porting, blending matching, springs optimized for the cam etc., then this is money well spent and is affordable. Later when, a "greedier need" for speed is determined, those heads can be easily sold for what he has in them.
Yes, there is an approximately 20 lb/head savings, when making the change to aluminum, but that's, not the end to it.There is all of the CC'ng action required to take get the CR where it needs to be (9.5, or so). Done right the addition of $1200 heads can run $1500+ easily, due to other hardware and labor needs.
Just my 2 cents.
Happy Trails!

 

[blown65]

Hi,
I tend to agree with 2+2GTs approach. In that, it appears "MHJO" is just looking for "more feel" in his "seat-o-meter". If he can optimize those stock heads for under $500, with porting, blending matching, springs optimized for the cam etc., then this is money well spent and is affordable. Later when, a "greedier need" for speed is determined, those heads can be easily sold for what he has in them.
Yes, there is an approximately 20 lb/head savings, when making the change to aluminum, but that's, not the end to it.There is all of the CC'ng action required to take get the CR where it needs to be (9.5, or so). Done right the addition of $1200 heads can run $1500+ easily, due to other hardware and labor needs.
Just my 2 cents.
Happy Trails!

That's why you buy heads with a small chamber to start with.

 

[PoppyMod]

That's why you buy heads with a small chamber to start with.

Hi,
While your comment is true in theory, It doesn't come without more research and cost check to make it a reality. Our friend needs a starting point of 58 CCs, to be within a starting margin to simply swap out heads for a performance increase. Whose ever heads, outside of his stock heads, is going to need additional parts and labor. As far as aluminum goes, the 165 AFRs, may be a good starting point, once you choke down the costs of purchase and additional costs, noted later. They can be had with the smaller chambers (58). The smallest available for TW is 61. AFRs are $1300-1400. He will need the PR geo and the spring pressures checked and and adjusted, most likely. So, he has to think out the entire project. You really need to do a cost benefit analysis if you don't want to waste your money and end up not making the power you think you should, all the while wasting money.
Just way I see it. In the end our friend has to sort through all of these comments from those of us who have "been there, done that" wasted the time, and wasted the money.

 

[mhjo]

Thanks for good and healthy ($) advice!!



Hmmmmm....(thinking)......

I will ask my mechanic about porting my heads. He knows how to do that.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

IMO, Edelbrock Performers are another viable choice for aluminum heads. You will probably want to get a different intake manifold regardless of what upgraded heads are used.

 

[Hack]

Maybe it's different in other areas, but around here it's hard to sell ported iron heads. A lot of people don't even like to port iron heads any more, because it's not as easy as porting aluminum. I bought a set of used iron GT-40s with professional porting, upgraded springs and 11,000 miles on them for $300. If you want iron heads consider finding used heads rather than getting work done on yours.

I've seen local guys trying to sell ported E7s and no one is even interested. Just my thoughts about it. Also, typically you're going to want to buy different valve springs, larger valves, new guides, have the heads machined for screw-in studs, etc. in order for the port work to give you the full benefit. Make sure you add up all the items on the list before deciding which way to go. Some aluminum heads come with very crappy springs, so be cautious and don't assume that a new set of aluminum heads will have the right components for your build.

Also, porting won't add material so ported heads often can never be as good as more modern heads with superior port and chamber design as a starting point. Don't expect that by porting your existing heads you will get something equivalent to a modern aluminum head. It won't be.

One example: the last engine I built I thought I was going the cheap way and I ended up realizing I could have bought a stroker kit rather than upgrading my original rotating assembly. I didn't add up the new rod bolts, resizing the big ends, new pistons and rings, rebalancing, etc. prior to making the decision on which way to go.

Just one in a long list of things I have done once and then had some regrets because I cheaped out the first time. Sometimes it's cheaper to do it well the first time. Just consider all the options and details prior to making the decision.

 

[robbz28]

FWIW, i have decided when i buy some heads it will probably be the Ford Racing "X" heads, they are a good aluminum head for our small displacement applications...if you decided to go stroked one might want to opt for the "Z" heads.

 

[bikefreak600]

my .02 cents... everyone that uses stock parts (modified or untouched) always ends up dissapointed in the LONG RUN. for nearly half the cost of aftermarket heads for mild port work + parts all you end up with is expensive junk. the only way i would recommend someone rebuild/modify stock components if they wanted a low performance original looking car.

add up the price of springs, locks, retainers, seals + possibly new valves. + any machine work needed.

patriot performance 185 aluminum heads $965 ...will outperform any modified gt40 junk

 

[Slobin3d]

This is the route I'm going on my 351. Whether or not I do the stroker kit also is to be determined

Edelbrock.com - Power Package - Top End Kits - Ford

 

[blown65]

my .02 cents... everyone that uses stock parts (modified or untouched) always ends up dissapointed in the LONG RUN. for nearly half the cost of aftermarket heads for mild port work + parts all you end up with is expensive junk. the only way i would recommend someone rebuild/modify stock components if they wanted a low performance original looking car.

add up the price of springs, locks, retainers, seals + possibly new valves. + any machine work needed.

patriot performance 185 aluminum heads $965 ...will outperform any modified gt40 junk

yup. yup and yup.

 

[robbz28]

This is the route I'm going on my 351. Whether or not I do the stroker kit also is to be determined

Edelbrock.com - Power Package - Top End Kits - Ford

Make sure you check the specs out on the camshaft that comes in your kit, i bought one of these top end kits about 12 years ago from edelbrock, all "matched parts" it says for "peak horsepower" bla blah blah. Anyway, after I installed it all my car just ran like crap, the camshaft was just way way wrong, i ended up getting one with a lot less duration and the car ran great. That was 12 years ago and a different kit, but just make sure you check the specs and ask around a little bit first.....

 

[S-Car-Go]

289s had 54cc chambers. It probably has 9.2 compression. I wouldn't go to a bigger chamber. Port the stock heads, upgrade to an RPM intake (or stealth), a holley and maybe a gear change. Make sure the distributor has a quick curve to it. At the end of the day, it's still just a 289 with a mild cam, low compression and hipo exhaust manifolds.

If you need more later on down the road, go with a roller block, heads and stroke it.