Water pump bolts and the adventure of removing them...

[strattoc]

I finally got tired of dealing with the leaking timing cover water pump deal, when I bought the car I noticed one bolt head was missing and I what I figured was the case, on both sides the outer most bolt on the water pump was broken off in the block/timing cover. So I figured it wouldnt be too bad of a task to perform, but once I tore into it I was having flashbacks of when I couldnt get the egr spacer off because the studs were seized up from rust. So the new ARP bolts from LMR just got here today and I dropped my wife and daughter off at the airport so I have exactly 7 days to get my car back together.

I also bought a new water pump, gasket set and new water neck that goes on the intake mani. I'm just kind of hung up right now because the bolt on the harmonic balancer is being stuborn but my friend is going to bring his tiny air compressor and hopefully its got enough volume to bust the bolt with an impact. From there I'm drilling the bolts out in hopes of being able to pop the timing cover lose and I'm going to try and leave enough bolt to get the vise grips on them. There was about 3/4" sticking out on the left side and I've heated and soaked with pb blaster and ended up just snapping what was left off too. I realized the timing cover is holding about 2" of bolt that is welded in with rust so hopefully when the cover comes off whats left will spin out without too much of a fight. Tomorrow I'm going by the scrap yards to see what prospects of other covers are incase things get crazy and I take a BFH to it.

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[4rdnut]

What a corroded mess that is. You might need a new timing cover, that one looks pretty pitted unless you can sand it level and smooth. When you put it all back together make sure you put anti seize on the bolts that don't go into the water jackets and the bolts that do sit in water get a coating of sealant on the threads to prevent leaks and seizing of the bolts. good luck and get the best cutting drill bit you can find or the bit will snap inside the bolt and then it will be hammer and chisel time.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Good luck. If you haven't done anything since your pictures, I'll bet there'll be more broken bolts in your future ( to include those broken long bolts breaking again,....in the block) the whole job pic looks scary.
I *feel for you guys that have to deal w/ what 20+ years of winter driving in states that use salt on the roads.

*(I feel you're crazy to live there in the first place.)

Timing covers for 5.0's are available new everywhere. Don't kill yourself w/ the one on your car, and then go to a junk yard and start over. LRS sells this kit for 69.99

 

[Jason 302]

That doesn't look like any fun!

Good luck!

 

[betke76]

damn that sucks

 

[StreetsideStig]

Yeesh. Keep us updated.

 

[strattoc]

I appreciate everyones input. I went to the junk yard and found the only car there with a 302, it was an 87 crown vic, part numbers matched so I pulled it. So $10 saved me from beating myself up on the bad one on my car. I took my dremel and made cuts where the bolts went through and chiseled it out. Looking at it I realize now I would have never gotten it loose had I not done that. the left side bolt came out but the right side spun a quarter turn and because I tried drilling it out yesterday snapped and now there is only 1/4" sticking out and its still tight as hell. I'm thinking about drilling it and maybe a heli-coil. what would you guys suggest before I try anything else with the stubby bolt sticking out?

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Very nice looking bolts if I say so myself, I'll have to see if I can find a diagram that shows all the locations.
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[StreetsideStig]

Before you start drilling, you might want to take your dremel and cut a flathead slot in each of the bolts. I've done that before, though these are probably in tighter than the one I ground out. It's worth a shot.

 

[jsw81]

water pump bolts diagram:

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/Product/Images/LRS-8501AHDW?default=lrs-8501bhdw_3372.jpg

 

[jrichker]

Here’s the parts list for the broken water pump bolts. Not cheap, but it will get you fixed and back on the road…

A word about the links, if they don’t work, do a search on the part number (P/N). MSC updates their catalog regularly, and the pages may change, but the part numbers don’t.

The prices here may be old and out of date, but the part numbers should still be good.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=1096 Use drill bushing 5/16” OD, 5/32” ID, ¾” long, P/N 07010457, price $12.49 This centers the drill bit in the housing bolt hole so you don’t get off center and damage the water pump, timing cover housing or engine block


http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=27 drill bits - use 5/32” Cobalt/TiN coated bit. P/N 83240556, price $4.17

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=1928 Screw/bolt extractors. Use EZY-OUT Screw Extractor P/N 63760037 Price $4.16

One step specialty item: See Drill-Out® Broken Bolt Extractors drill bushing, reverse twist drill & extractor all in one unit. Best to use when the bolt breaks off with the remaining part below the start of the threads. .P/N 05027164. Price $24.40 each. You MUST have a reversing drill motor (either air or electric) to use this bit. http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=19268

A long shank tap should be used to chase the leftover metal out of the original threads. Also recommended to clean the corrosion and dirt out of the threads before you reassemble everything. Cleaning the threads will help prevent the bolts from seizing next time (yes, there will be a next time).

Long shank 5/16” taps to clean or re-tap threads with the timing cover or water pump still in place.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=04801189 5/16” pulley tap, 6” shank P/N 04801189 price $31.71

OR second choice, will not clean all the bottom threads unless you grind the end of the tap.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=04701181 extension tap, 6” reduced diameter shank P/N 04701181 $35.83

See http://totallystainless.net/totally.html for the bolts and studs. Nice folks, very into cars of all types. They have all kinds of stainless fasteners for almost every car. The prices are very reasonable, less the $12 for the water pump kit without the studs.
Stud bolt kits for FORD 5.OL water pumps in:
1985 Mustang with (2) short, (2) medium, (1) long stud bolt, & flange nuts
(also used on some FORD trucks & suv applications) P/N 6-9030, $63.50
1994-1995 Mustang with (2) short & (1) medium length stud bolt P/N 6-9028, $37.40
1986-1993 Mustang with (2) short & (1) long stud bolt P/N 6-9029, $37.90


The stock steel studs are a Motormite item available at your local Advance Discount auto Parts store.

Motormite Water Pump Stud Kits for Ford, Lincoln and Mercury cars and trucks w/3.8L, 4.6L, 5.0L, 5.8L.
Part Number: 23744

1.) Remove the water pump, fan, fan shroud & radiator – you’ll need lots of room to get the drill positioned straight.
2.) Test fit the drill bushing in the timing cover housing – this assumes that the bolt broke off below the surface of the housing. If it is too loose, use some scotch tape wrapped around it to make a snug fit. The drill bushing helps center the drill bit up on the broken bolt so that it does not get off into the timing cover or engine block. If the bushing does not fit at least 3/8” into the timing cover, you may want to consider removing the timing cover and attacking the remnant of the bolt shank with a propane torch and Visegrips. If not, then find a drill bit big enough to drill off some of the remnant of the bolt shank until you can get the drill bushing in the required 3/8” or deeper into the timing cover housing. You will end up using the timing cover housing to center the large drill bit on the broken bolt shank. This is not the best plan, since the aluminum timing cover is soft and it would be easy to get the bit off center and damage the timing cover.
3.) Once you have the drill bushing in place, chuck up the drill bit and drill the broken bolt. Use lots of WD40 to cool the drill bit. If you break the drill bit off in the bolt, it is time for a tow trip the automotive machine shop. Drill bits and easy outs are extremely hard and cannot be removed by ordinary means. It takes a solid carbide bit and extreme care to remove a broken drill bit or broken easy out.
4.) When you have drilled about ½” into the broken bolt, then remove the drill bushing and use a hammer to tap the easy out into place. Then chuck up the easy out in a T handle tap wrench. Turn the tap wrench slowly counter clockwise and you will feel it dig into the broken bolt. If it starts to slip, tap on the tap wrench with the hammer to reseat the easy out into the bolt.
5.) Keep turning and one of three things will happen:
a.) The bolt will come out and your efforts will be rewarded.
b.) Or the easy out will continue to slip and more efforts will not make it grip. This means you get to remove the timing cover and attack the bolt remnant head on. That means you get to drill the bolt out to a thin shell & either re-tap the hole or install a helicoil threaded insert.
c.) Or worst of all, the easy out will break off it the bolt shank. Then it is tow time to the automotive machine shop and pain in the wallet.

 

[strattoc]

alright so its mostly back together, I spent most of the day changing a freeze plug on my friends YJ and getting a double double from In and Out that I've been dreaming of my entire deployment.

So against my better judgement I used some cheaper drill bits and sure enough I snapped one in there, luckily I was able to bust out the remnants and carry on. So I have the cover back on and water pump with all the studs and bolts installed. I'm glad its back together and cant wait to have my car back.

One thing that stinks is the new water neck I just bought has a threaded hole but didnt come with a plug, so I get to go hunt one of those down.

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[betke76]

congrats

 

[LarsD]

That happened to me on a Ram Charger I had years ago. I carefully disassembled the timing cover with my ball peen hammer.

 

[4rdnut]

alright so its mostly back together, I spent most of the day changing a freeze plug on my friends YJ and getting a double double from In and Out that I've been dreaming of my entire deployment.

So against my better judgement I used some cheaper drill bits and sure enough I snapped one in there, luckily I was able to bust out the remnants and carry on. So I have the cover back on and water pump with all the studs and bolts installed. I'm glad its back together and cant wait to have my car back.

One thing that stinks is the new water neck I just bought has a threaded hole but didnt come with a plug, so I get to go hunt one of those down.

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The bottom of the threaded hole in the t-stat housing has a black something in the pic or am i seeing things.

 

[old_blue]

looks like the thermostat to me unless it is me missing something.

 

[strattoc]

yes thats the thermostat you can see through the threaded hole, I have to find a threaded plug to fill that hole with. Atleast it will help to bleed the air from the block.