AFR 165 & 185 users... any issues w/ rocker arm positioning?
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Im probably bringing up an old thread, and I'm hoping its been resolved already ,
I bought a set of AFR 165 heads direct from AFR about 6 years ago, and just got around to installing them on a project I've been tinkering with for the last 6 months. (93 302 block stock)
While all the rocker arms a slightly askew , the number 1 passenger side bank is the worse and then # 3 and #4 of the same head are slightly off. #1 is riding with >1/2 the roller tip off the valve stem .
The drivers side head rocker arms are also slightly askew, but all naturally center over the valve tip. I am running the comp cams magnum roller 1.6:1 and Ive tried a set of FRPP 1.6 Rockers, same result,
It looks to be that the stud positioning or the tunnel for the pushrods were slightly off for some of the earlier production runs.. as it seems no one that I have spoke too that purchased them recently has heard of this problem .
I contact AFR, who relented and sent a set of "special" guide plates.. it just looked like they were elongated. and wider. The new plates made the drivers side look great, but no improvement on the # , and made 4 and 3 worse.
I called back since, and they are really pressing back hard on me, One of their guys said they dont see a problem and they would run this with no problem .. BS! Then I hit them with the evidence of , why is one head good, and the other messed up. The couldnt get around that one.. so they asked me to send them more photos.
If it something I am doing wrong , great! someone point it out so I can put this together. But I've been doing this for awhile now, and its certainly not my first build. how can one side look decent and the other all out of wack?
I can't be the first person to complain to them about this, did anyone ever get any traction with AFR. I am 1 step away from taking them to the recyclers and getting scrap money for some Edelbrock or FRPP heads that have worked every time for me.
Here are a couple pics to get you started, NOTE there are two pics of the drivers side , one with my fingers in frame..
You can see the valve tip of the #1 , note the surface wear from the rocker running on one side of it.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlNDhlYmNkNDctZGZjYi00OGFjLWIxZDItNzc0MjMzMjkwMzcw
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlODdlNzdkMTctMWMzMS00ZTY5LWExMDEtNDkxOWE5NDEwMWRk
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlODBhODc1YzctNDBjZC00ZjZmLWI2YmYtYTNjNzUyNTU2YzYy
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlNmIwNjcyNjEtYmI1MS00ZGMwLTlmZjYtZjZhNDc2MDY5Yjhm
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlZDdkMzg4ZGQtZjg2Ni00YWNjLTkzMjctZDJiMTRkMzdlZDdh
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlYTRmNTE3NmYtYzVlNC00ZmRkLWEzNzctYjdhNGE3OTg1OGEx
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlNzU4YzBhM2UtNTczYS00YmZmLWEwNzMtZjRlZTc3M2ZmY2Mw
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlMjBkNTZjNTktNWE5NC00NGEyLWEyYjEtMjY0YTljNmFmNDVm
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlYjI5Yzc0MzYtZDRiOC00MzU3LWEzYzAtZTY0MTJjNjBmNmM1
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlOTQ5ZTg1OTQtZDU3NC00MWIzLThmOWQtM2FmNzgwNTgwZDVl
I bought a set of AFR 165 heads direct from AFR about 6 years ago, and just got around to installing them on a project I've been tinkering with for the last 6 months. (93 302 block stock)
While all the rocker arms a slightly askew , the number 1 passenger side bank is the worse and then # 3 and #4 of the same head are slightly off. #1 is riding with >1/2 the roller tip off the valve stem .
The drivers side head rocker arms are also slightly askew, but all naturally center over the valve tip. I am running the comp cams magnum roller 1.6:1 and Ive tried a set of FRPP 1.6 Rockers, same result,
It looks to be that the stud positioning or the tunnel for the pushrods were slightly off for some of the earlier production runs.. as it seems no one that I have spoke too that purchased them recently has heard of this problem .
I contact AFR, who relented and sent a set of "special" guide plates.. it just looked like they were elongated. and wider. The new plates made the drivers side look great, but no improvement on the # , and made 4 and 3 worse.
I called back since, and they are really pressing back hard on me, One of their guys said they dont see a problem and they would run this with no problem .. BS! Then I hit them with the evidence of , why is one head good, and the other messed up. The couldnt get around that one.. so they asked me to send them more photos.
If it something I am doing wrong , great! someone point it out so I can put this together. But I've been doing this for awhile now, and its certainly not my first build. how can one side look decent and the other all out of wack?
I can't be the first person to complain to them about this, did anyone ever get any traction with AFR. I am 1 step away from taking them to the recyclers and getting scrap money for some Edelbrock or FRPP heads that have worked every time for me.
Here are a couple pics to get you started, NOTE there are two pics of the drivers side , one with my fingers in frame..
You can see the valve tip of the #1 , note the surface wear from the rocker running on one side of it.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlNDhlYmNkNDctZGZjYi00OGFjLWIxZDItNzc0MjMzMjkwMzcw
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlODdlNzdkMTctMWMzMS00ZTY5LWExMDEtNDkxOWE5NDEwMWRk
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlODBhODc1YzctNDBjZC00ZjZmLWI2YmYtYTNjNzUyNTU2YzYy
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlNmIwNjcyNjEtYmI1MS00ZGMwLTlmZjYtZjZhNDc2MDY5Yjhm
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlZDdkMzg4ZGQtZjg2Ni00YWNjLTkzMjctZDJiMTRkMzdlZDdh
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlYTRmNTE3NmYtYzVlNC00ZmRkLWEzNzctYjdhNGE3OTg1OGEx
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlNzU4YzBhM2UtNTczYS00YmZmLWEwNzMtZjRlZTc3M2ZmY2Mw
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlMjBkNTZjNTktNWE5NC00NGEyLWEyYjEtMjY0YTljNmFmNDVm
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlYjI5Yzc0MzYtZDRiOC00MzU3LWEzYzAtZTY0MTJjNjBmNmM1
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-SnSnjCJSmlOTQ5ZTg1OTQtZDU3NC00MWIzLThmOWQtM2FmNzgwNTgwZDVl
How'd your engine sound, how does it run? I still haven't installed my engine myself...(lost interest) you have to/need to perform some corrections for longetivity's sake I feel..
Those pics are similar to what I had...get some/use some good machine shop tools - you should be able to save them I believe - but what horsesh1t from AFR...they never returned my call - I feel like it was more like "so long sucker" now how many more more can I screw out of their money!
The heads work well I hear - but i would just like them to last longer than a day!!(and not be like the pics you've shown) - don't feel bad I believe the problem is bigger than they let on(statistics show only 10-20%) report the problems...
If yours are like this, mine are like this - there's many more - don't kid yourself! We both know it...But our pride hurts(I can deal with that) it's the wallet, the time etc...
Anyways, here we are you and I with apparently the only 2 bad set of heads to leave AFR!!!(yeah right!)
I feel like you(deceived) - when I seriously get around to it - I'll make it run....but that will be for another day...good luck my friend!
Those pics are similar to what I had...get some/use some good machine shop tools - you should be able to save them I believe - but what horsesh1t from AFR...they never returned my call - I feel like it was more like "so long sucker" now how many more more can I screw out of their money!
The heads work well I hear - but i would just like them to last longer than a day!!(and not be like the pics you've shown) - don't feel bad I believe the problem is bigger than they let on(statistics show only 10-20%) report the problems...
If yours are like this, mine are like this - there's many more - don't kid yourself! We both know it...But our pride hurts(I can deal with that) it's the wallet, the time etc...
Anyways, here we are you and I with apparently the only 2 bad set of heads to leave AFR!!!(yeah right!)
I feel like you(deceived) - when I seriously get around to it - I'll make it run....but that will be for another day...good luck my friend!
txstang84
15 Year Member
I saw the exact same thing with a set of 185s on my buddy's 331...all we did was loosen the guideplates and finagle them for a couple minutes and we were good to go...but you ain't alone. The same year we went to FFW @ Ennis and spoke with the AFR rep at their tent. They acknowledged the misalignments and of course said something to the effect they were working issues out through attrition...
I saw the same thing and have noticed slight difference between heads, I use ISky adj guide plates or I have used COMP guide plates as well. The slight skew has not caused any issues on anything Ive seen or built...but it is noticable. TFS heads with the rotated valves tend to do this as well....
They will run and perform great.
They will run and perform great.
same problem here. I fight with this problem since 5-6 years now on my 185. The passenger side is "ok" but the driver side is crap.
I use isky guide plates from day one. With AFR guide plates no chance.
My biggest problem is not only the side to side alignment. The studs or the valve guides on 5 and 6 cylinder are seems to be bent. My
comp pro magnum roller rockers on this cylinders are riding almost on the edge of the valve tip. Horizontally twisted, or so ?
I can´t explain it correct with my crappy english.
I bought a set of "the best" heads available and changed the crappy springs, the crappy rocker studs, the crappy guide plates, what´s
the next ? Maybe the heads !
Markus
I use isky guide plates from day one. With AFR guide plates no chance.
My biggest problem is not only the side to side alignment. The studs or the valve guides on 5 and 6 cylinder are seems to be bent. My
comp pro magnum roller rockers on this cylinders are riding almost on the edge of the valve tip. Horizontally twisted, or so ?
I can´t explain it correct with my crappy english.
I bought a set of "the best" heads available and changed the crappy springs, the crappy rocker studs, the crappy guide plates, what´s
the next ? Maybe the heads !
Markus
A couple questions and clarifications
What Isky guide plates are you all referring to ?
The only ones I found were for a chevy and the pushrod slots were too shallow.
To clarify , I am running a combo of the old and new afr guidplates.. a combination of them got the driver side good, but the passenger side is still out of alignment.. especially on the #1 cyl and then 3 and 4 but not as bad
Markus , I think you mean the rocker arm stud pad is not in the same horizontal plane as the flat tip of the valve ???
What Isky guide plates are you all referring to ?
The only ones I found were for a chevy and the pushrod slots were too shallow.
To clarify , I am running a combo of the old and new afr guidplates.. a combination of them got the driver side good, but the passenger side is still out of alignment.. especially on the #1 cyl and then 3 and 4 but not as bad
Markus , I think you mean the rocker arm stud pad is not in the same horizontal plane as the flat tip of the valve ???
The isky plates we use are this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ISK-200-AGP/
You must grind the guide plate to clear the push rod.
With out grinding it looks like this one
http://212.227.100.192/mustang/mods/isky2.jpg
To compare the afr and the isky
http://212.227.100.192/mustang/mods/isky1.jpg
You must grind the guide plate to clear the push rod.
With out grinding it looks like this one
http://212.227.100.192/mustang/mods/isky2.jpg
To compare the afr and the isky
http://212.227.100.192/mustang/mods/isky1.jpg
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