jetmech807
10 Year Member
That's where I'm going next winter. Bought yellow Koni's since they work with MM coil overs. I want the adjustability.
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built vs bought....
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nine3cobra
Member
ok so i was wrong on the price
Roush Stage 3= low 59k high 61
GT= 29k-36k
not even including the tax difference i'll pick the lower of both in cost so 29k and 59k.
engine:
http://www.steeda.com/store/2011-up-mustang-magnuson-tvs-2300-supercharger.html $5995
suspension:
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=207 $2379
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=155 $329.95
brakes:
http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-14-inch-big-brake-kit-for-2005-and-up-ford-mustang.html $2395
bodykit/pretty stuff:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/RTR-10986000-K/Mustang-Rtr-Body-Appearance-Package $1549
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/LRS-44210SC/2010-11-Gt500-Style-Rear-Spoiler $299.99
interior
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com...de-Seat-With-Black-Micro-Suede-Sold-As-A-Pair $909.09
anyways. total for the above is 13855 which would put the car at $42855 leaving more for you to add wherever you feel is lacking. i just threw on some body stuff that i liked however i am building it to what i want in a car not what someone else wants. this would take for ever to actually price shop and pick what i would want. and i am not going to take into consideration the cost of fabbing up your own turbo kit and all the small details so whatever... in the end i would rather have this car cause i picked out everything and it costs less and its tailor fit to what ever i want to do with it. An added bonus is i would get to spend a ton of quality time with my son and my car.
Well, it was @Gearbanger101 that you needed to convince on that one.
It was me who said people who want a Roush buy a Roush. People who want to go fast buy a turbo. You'll have to excuse my drag strip mentality.
It was me who said people who want a Roush buy a Roush. People who want to go fast buy a turbo. You'll have to excuse my drag strip mentality.
foxbodymike87
Active Member
- Jul 12, 2011
- 739
- 35
- 39
it just gets frusterating. people who dont have alot of money like termi people do and then termi ppl talk down to us because there cars have more power ect ect.Bingo. Makes me wonder who the real snobs here are?
darthcual
Member
Why buy someone elses problem when you can make your own. Or in my case when I bought this second foxbody, I bought someone elses problem and made it my own. This is an enjoyable thread, everyone is making good points. I think if I had the money I would pay a shop to do the work, however, I'd want it done my way. I have a buddy with an 92 MR2 that we are setting up a race and he's had a shop do every performance mod on his car while I've pieced my car together from junkyards and craigslist ads. I straight up told him the pressure is on him to win because he's got close to 10k invested into that car, while I've only got about 2K. He's just afraid to do the work himself.
When you buy a Roush or a Saleen, or Steeda for that matter you also get the Factory Warranty, for some people that in of itself is worth the extra $. If you do it yourself, or pay someone else to do it, the warranty is usually thrown out the window, and some people do not want to risk it.
nine3cobra
Member
well there are some issues with that as well. i had an 06 GT that suffered from the windshield water leak issue. There was a TSB covering it, however after the car almost killed me driving at night and randomly turning the lights off for me and rolling the windows down (thanks car) i took it in with this issue. after 2 months they "Fixed the car" and sent me on my way only to find out after getting up to speed on the freeway (at night) they didn't fix anything. took it back again for another 3 week visit and they came back to me looking for $1900 for the power distribution computer on a car that had 30k miles on it and also had a 100k ford esp warranty. apparently the water damage is not covered under any warranty and even though it was a known defect they wanted me to pay. after a bunch of calls to corporate etc. my car was fixed under warranty. 2 weeks later i had to drive across country through rain and by the time i made it to my destination the entire inside of the car was sitting in 2" of water. i have lots of neat stories about warranty work from ford i have received but not enough time to write it.
So be my guest, take your $60k car to have some warranty work done, i don't trust anyone to work on my cars because its not theirs. well maybe some buddies as long as they have beer, but thats it!
bentley429isBAC
10 Year Member
Personally I wouldnt care if I found a good deal on something that was already built but the correct way. Its not like I have something to prove to anyone. Plus I am sure I would do my own finishing touches anyways.
Again, Maybe it's just me. (and again, it always is) I pay no attention to the rows of "specialty mustangs" at the shows. Whether they be Roush, Saleen, or Shelby's, I'll give you no credit for having something special, especially when someone else (w/ 56k) can buy the exact same thing. The three mentioned are already pretty well optioned out, and can only be minimally personalized beyond what they come with. (Who'd want to change the car up anyway)? I mean it already has SHELBY all over it.
Ohh I understand the desire to own the badge, for all the reasons and benefits that come w/ it... but it'll always come down to this:
Put an 12 Shelby next to (insert your favorite fox build here). Ask the Shelby/Saleen /Roush owner if the other car compares, and to him It'll never measure up. "How could it??? unless it's a Stage 3 Roush, It can't even hold a candle to mine"
Obviously, I side w/ the do it yourself perspective.
As for buying somebodies car, and making it mine,...Naww,.. there's always too much stuff I'd change, and like previously mentioned above, it'd be short lived in my garage, as I take no pride in bragging up someone else's work as my own.
Ohh I understand the desire to own the badge, for all the reasons and benefits that come w/ it... but it'll always come down to this:
Put an 12 Shelby next to (insert your favorite fox build here). Ask the Shelby/Saleen /Roush owner if the other car compares, and to him It'll never measure up. "How could it??? unless it's a Stage 3 Roush, It can't even hold a candle to mine"
Obviously, I side w/ the do it yourself perspective.
As for buying somebodies car, and making it mine,...Naww,.. there's always too much stuff I'd change, and like previously mentioned above, it'd be short lived in my garage, as I take no pride in bragging up someone else's work as my own.
87-t-top-gt
Member
For what I've invested in this car I could have gotten a 93 Cobra and a saleen. No 
.. but then I'd have been stuck with two historic pieces I'd be too afraid to mod. I could have easily gotten a built fox on steroids but where's the fun? I always have and always will be a DIY guy..there's no honesty or anything really while bragging about a car you had no hand in. Thats all just MHO.
.. but then I'd have been stuck with two historic pieces I'd be too afraid to mod. I could have easily gotten a built fox on steroids but where's the fun? I always have and always will be a DIY guy..there's no honesty or anything really while bragging about a car you had no hand in. Thats all just MHO.
Well, for starters, so much for this statement....
But Ok....i'll ignore the fact that you’re not using “the same exact parts” and assume you’ve probably actually looked up the cost of adding the parts piece by piece to your stock GT, done the math and realized the error in your statement. So lets go with your parts list…
I like what you did with the list…and you’ve certainly covered a lot of bases….but you missed a few key components.
For starters….your prices for the cars are a little out of whack. The Roush Stage 3’s start life as GT Premium cars….not stripped out base models. So if you want to compare, let’s start them out on an even keel at the higher of your two quoted prices in the $34,000-$36,000 that Ford MSRP’s them for....not the basic $29,000 you listed.
Second $59,000 is a well optioned Roush Stage 3. The basic Roush Stage 3 package MSRP’s for less than $56,000…but that’s fine, let’s use your $59,000 number.
Just so you know though, this leaves us with a discrepancy of $5,000-10,000 between your price range of the cars right off the bat.
Beyond that, you forgot…
Exhaust. Count on adding an additional $600-$700 to the price tag. Sure, I guess you could go with a cheaper, mild steel set up with inferior components and come out in a lower price range. But we are after all comparing apples to apples here, right? Only the best stainless components are fitted to the Roush cars. Rebadged Borla system actually…which as I’m sure you know is amongst the cream of the crop.
Wheels. I see no mention of aftermarket wheels in your post? I mean…you’re going to go through the trouble of putting a body kit on the car, you might address the wheels and tires too while you’re at it. After all….Roush did. So feel free to tack on another $2,000 minimum to the price tag. That is of course if you want to compare to the quality and size of the one piece 20” cast aluminum wheels with ultra high performance RS3 tires Roush offers.
Interior. Really??? You stick a set of cheap, second rate Corbeau cloth seats (front only might I add) into your GT and you think that put it on par with the interior Roush offers it’s buyer? Never mind the custom stitched embroidered leather seats , brushed aluminum accents, illuminated sill plates, pedals, white faced gauges, shifter, badging, etc, etc. You better tack on another $1,000 to that total if you want your GT interior to resemble anything close to what comes standard in with the Roush. Another 1,500 if you opt for the gussied up Roush quoted in your $59,000 initial estimate!
Exterior. I mean….you body kit choice wouldn’t be my cup of tea…but OK, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And never mind the fact that it’s a basic kit that doesn’t come with driving like, or the duct work to cool the brakes like the real RTR Mustang was built with…but man, it’s sure going to look silly without any paint on it. So you’d better set aside at least another $1,000 to have them colour matched to the rest of your car and don’t forget labour to install them. Unless of course you’re into that sort of “ricey unpainted body kit I just put on in my driveway by myself” sort of thing?!? We won’t even take into consideration the striping and badges you’re not getting….which would run you at least another $500 BTW.
So what we’ve got here is an additional $4,500 (on the low end) in parts. Count on being closer to $7,000 in part to match the quality and quantity of the Roush components . And that’s just what I can think of off of the top of my head. You can bet there’s at least another $,2000-minimum worth supporting hardware and accents that I haven’t even listed. Plus the $8,000+10,000 discrepancy of your original new car price estimates.
That leave a grand total of $14,500 difference minimum with just the items listed above. As much as $19K on the high end. Don’t be surprised if it doesn’t climb higher still with final touches…and damnit if I didn’t completely disregard total time and labour costs from the grand total. The Roush after all, is a turnkey vehicle. No down time or additional labour costs involved.
Right off the bat we’re at either far less car for about the same price, or far more money than it cost you to just duplicate the Stage 3 as a whole (nevermind suprass it). And as stated by Bullitt347 above, you’ve successfully voided your 3/year 36,000-mile warranty by doing it yourself.
Still think you can do it better, cheaper?
Look…as I clarified with Hoopty. Building a Mustang to run on par, or better than one of the specialty mustangs by Roush, Steeda, Shelby, etc for less than package price tag….totally feasible. No argument there. DUPLICATING the entire car as a whole for less than what Roush is asking….not gonna happen. You can build it the way you like and leave out the things that you don’t, but you haven’t met the parameters of “just as good or better” without emulating the vehicle as a whole. You aren't competing head to head accross the board just by copying a few parts and ignoring the rest. You can have the function, or the form, but you’re not gonna get both for that price. Sorry…no way, no how!
And then there is the whole "re-sale" value as well. When/if either car was to be resold, you would never get the same $ value back. It is a rare thing indeed to get back the $ invested in a build that we put into them. And I am not including the labor. If we were to pay ourselves $5.00 per hr during our build and include that in the re-sale price, people would think we are nuts to ask that much.
It kills me to think about ever trying to sell my car because I know what's in invested in it. The return would be a small, small fraction.
91TwighlightGT
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
To me it all comes down to two things...
Economics and time.
Let's face facts, some people simply do not have the time to devote to their Mustang. I am barely able to devote enough time to work on my current project. One day a week (Sunday) and so far I'm about halfway done. I've been working on the car since March of 2011. So, one year down and half way done! In addition, I have help from my Dad each weekend. If I was doing this all by myself, I would have that much further to go.
If I had the money and all I wanted to do was drive a nice clean Fox every day, then paying someone to do the restoration might make sense. As it is, I will probably have 2 years into my build until I can drive my car, and it still likely will need some stuff that I just haven't gotten to yet.
Now, I enjoy working on the car. It is one of the most satisfying experiences to be able to say that you built your car. With my '91 GT, I can say that everything that has been done on the car was my own labor. It took me FIVE years to do it. I have so much time into the car (and, of course, money) that when I look at my car and sit in it I feel a real sense of pride. You won't get that feeling from a car that you simply buy. You may love your car, but until you have a serious investment of time into it, you won't understand.
I don't berate those that bought nice fast cars and are proud of them. That is no problem, and I think it is great for the car hobby to see people enjoy their Mustangs however they got them. I will say this... if you ever get the opportunity to build one, enjoy it. You will remember the struggles and the frustration, but when it is done you will appreciate the effort that it took to build something really special.
Economics and time.
Let's face facts, some people simply do not have the time to devote to their Mustang. I am barely able to devote enough time to work on my current project. One day a week (Sunday) and so far I'm about halfway done. I've been working on the car since March of 2011. So, one year down and half way done! In addition, I have help from my Dad each weekend. If I was doing this all by myself, I would have that much further to go.
If I had the money and all I wanted to do was drive a nice clean Fox every day, then paying someone to do the restoration might make sense. As it is, I will probably have 2 years into my build until I can drive my car, and it still likely will need some stuff that I just haven't gotten to yet.
Now, I enjoy working on the car. It is one of the most satisfying experiences to be able to say that you built your car. With my '91 GT, I can say that everything that has been done on the car was my own labor. It took me FIVE years to do it. I have so much time into the car (and, of course, money) that when I look at my car and sit in it I feel a real sense of pride. You won't get that feeling from a car that you simply buy. You may love your car, but until you have a serious investment of time into it, you won't understand.
I don't berate those that bought nice fast cars and are proud of them. That is no problem, and I think it is great for the car hobby to see people enjoy their Mustangs however they got them. I will say this... if you ever get the opportunity to build one, enjoy it. You will remember the struggles and the frustration, but when it is done you will appreciate the effort that it took to build something really special.
Exactly. I took a big bath on my Cougar when I sold it. I realize the Car was a "niche market" to begin with, but the drivetrain itself was identical to a '96-'04 Mustang. For what I sold the entire car for, you couldn't have built and engine and transmission for a Mustang at twice the price.
...but that's just the way it goes. Everyone loves custom, until it comes time to ponying up the money to buy someone elses. Then get ready to take a hit!
nine3cobra
Member
i guess i am just trying to understand your standpoint, to me that car is like buying someone elses custom car. granted it is a cookie cutter that they produced quite a few of the same exact thing. If i had one i would not be happy with it and i would end up doing stuff to it anyways. if your 100% satisfied with the car and you have no intentions of ever doing anything to the car... go for it but i am not over the hill yet, i can not drive a car and not want to make improvements. most of which i already paid for with the price tag. And if i did modify it it would hurt the resale, if i drove it every day the miles would hurt the resale, it would worry about it being stolen, vandalized, where i parked it, insurance would be higher etc.
here is a real life example:
buddy bought a 12 5.0 with the track pack (brembo's gears etc) he purchased the california special front/rear/grill, LCA's, tuner, full exhaust and still with all of that spent under 35k
his freind bought a C.S. same color without the brake package for a tad over 39k
the two cars look identical minus the brembo rims which are also 19s but have wider tires. his makes 40 more hp to the wheels, is faster, stops better, handles better, costs less and hurts the C.S. owners feelings regularly.
if you want a car for a status symbol i will never understand it, and you will go through cars every time the wind shifts direction and you will never be truly satisfied. There will always be something faster, something more rare, something better regardless of what you end up with. My car is none of those but i enjoy driving it every single day, and there are some things money just can not buy. but what do i know, i'm still a kid in my 20s.
here is a real life example:
buddy bought a 12 5.0 with the track pack (brembo's gears etc) he purchased the california special front/rear/grill, LCA's, tuner, full exhaust and still with all of that spent under 35k
his freind bought a C.S. same color without the brake package for a tad over 39k
the two cars look identical minus the brembo rims which are also 19s but have wider tires. his makes 40 more hp to the wheels, is faster, stops better, handles better, costs less and hurts the C.S. owners feelings regularly.
if you want a car for a status symbol i will never understand it, and you will go through cars every time the wind shifts direction and you will never be truly satisfied. There will always be something faster, something more rare, something better regardless of what you end up with. My car is none of those but i enjoy driving it every single day, and there are some things money just can not buy. but what do i know, i'm still a kid in my 20s.
nine3cobra
Member
since its raining and i have nothing better to do hopefully this will help:
the answer is still yes.
i think your missing the point, i don't want to build a bought car since we are comparing the two. i don't want a gt premium because i am going to change out the entire interior, why would i pay more for something i am going to remove. doesn't saleen do something simular? i still think 59k is a good estimate since the roush i looked at when i was deciding to get another mustang or a truck was 58k with a 7k dealer mark up not even including taxes and all the other b.s. they try to add on.
so take 42855 with the above installed and add this since your caculations were pretty crazy,
engine: ok fine throw the whole exhaust for an over estimated $2000 and a pulley for the s/c so about $2300 total and now it should be faster, if not just use the other 4k or so that is going to be left over i am sure by the time i finish this list.
$45155
interior: this was towards the end of my searching for parts and i was bored, so go ahead pick whatever you want, if roush stuff is your cup of tea $5000 should more than cover it, you can take the cheap seats listed above which i didn't even subtract from the cost and build desk chairs out of them if you would like, good luck with even being able to spend it all.
$50,155
suspension: i think i have it pretty much covered in the first post, if not you can use some of the money to have a cage welded in.
50,155
exterior: it comes to personal preferance, i don't like the roush kit. and since the RTR is the same kit as the boss 302 which i like i went that route. i didn't think i needed to have them painted, ford must not have thought so either. even if i went with a roush kit the only part that needs paint is the front bumper cover and i am sure the whole kit with it painted from american muscle is less than $2,500 which is what this costs with the splitter etc. so lets just throw the $740 adj front splitter on it with the brake ducts and all that. so $1200 more on top of the kit price already added above.
$51355
Wheels: also another thing i really didn't look into because it thought it was becoming painfully obvious. i think $5000 should suffice, i can probably find some nice 3 piece aluminum forged rims for that price but i don't know i haven't looked i'm sure its way more wheel than some roush rims/tires
$56,355
warranty? i would in no way shape or form take any vehicle i care about to dealerships anywhere within a 200 mile radius of where i live. the dealership back where i used to be is great but these here suck. so much for my warranty anyways. on top of that i have replaced most of the parts on the car with aftermarket most of which come with their own warranty.
so with the above added to the original parts listing.... 56,355 is STILL 3k shy and i am over pricing a good majority of it. i don't feel like even continuing, it is hurting my head with how obvious this is becoming.
something you build will always be better in my opinion. in every single aspect.
I take pride in doing all the work myself but i would have absolutely no issue with having a professional build my stuff if i could. I'd rather be driving than wrenching.
I'm not going to continue arguing numbers with you, as you seem content to believe what you will. What I will say, is that you're numbers are waaaay off and you’re leaving a LOT of unseen cost out of the equation. And since you’re never going to spend that kind of money building your dream GT and I’m never going to be able to afford a Stage 3 Roush, this argument is pointless.
In the future though...always remember, the cost of the core components are always only about half the financial battle. It's always the cost involved with the installation, set up and most importantly supporting parts that nickel and dimes you in the end. You being so keen on custom stuff and doing your own work I would think you would have acknowledged this?
Anytime anything "custom" is ever built, it's always a sound idea to add an additional 25-30% to your grand total for miscellaneous, or unthought-of items that always seem to pop up mid project. And guess what...even then a lot of the times you still come up short.
You have to ask yourself.....if it were so much cheaper for you duplicate their car, why would Roush bother putting together a package at all?
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