Restoration Project - Questions And Ideas

[fiveohwblow]

I don't know, you've met Canadians right?

 

[blackstangt]

I think you should ignore all of the kind advice that has been given and start disassembling your car right away.... then everyone on here can say "I told you so"

Have a nice day, and congrats on winning the douche of the universe award

From Page 1:
"Noted, I'm planning on having everything set up prior to the tear down." -myself

Have a nice day too, thanks.

 

[blackstangt]

The stock block may live if it is mostly a street car, but I know MFE cracked a stock block with a pretty mild combination. I imagine that because his is open tracked, it sees more sustained RPM, which is probably what killed it. If you are tracking the car, then I would definitely get a different block. On a street car, you could probably take the chance with the stocker.

If I decide to autocross or anything like that I'll probably need an upgrade for those reasons, I've been looking at the Iron blocks available on Jegs and Summit. The FRPP Boss 302 description says it won't work with my heads, have you or anyone seen a comparison between the different compatible 302s?

 

[blackstangt]

It's actually John Edward that is the biggest douche in the universe.

I'm just trying to get some ideas for a build, got annoyed by repetitive posts about potential failure after the issue was addressed, and was barraded by criticism for it, ruining the thread.

IMO, many posts on this forum are to increase message count, so the user can feel like they are viewed more legitimately, but all are equal on any forum regardless of contribution to that specific forum.

Anyway, still looking for a comparison of 302 engine block capability.

 

[stykthyn]

If you're worried splitting the block go with a 351.

 

[2000xp8]

Forget about block splitting.
According to your budget and the parts you intend to use, the only way you are splitting a block is with assembly or installation error.

Any race block (boss) setup with new h/c/i setup and a supercharger is going to bang you over ten grand just for the engine. According to what you are willing to spend on the car that is going to use up 2/3's of your money, that's without a fuel system.

 

[blackstangt]

If you're worried splitting the block go with a 351.

That's not all I'm worried about though, It's been a while since I've looked, but there are some additional components I would have to get for compatability reasons. This would also mean I couldn't use the intake components or heads I currently have.

 

[stykthyn]

You are really starting to sound like you want to build an all out race car with practically OE parts and budget and not wanting to take no for an answer. Best of luck to you.

 

[blackstangt]

You are really starting to sound like you want to build an all out race car with practically OE parts and budget and not wanting to take no for an answer. Best of luck to you.

I'm trying to conserve money based on the advice that this will be expensive if I go Ground-Up. Same with keeping the transmission, I'm trying to keep the aluminum heads I have, since that's about a grand less spent on the final build.

A 351 adds about 1600 dollars in aftermarket parts I won't be able to reuse (and would have to purchase) and I should only need about 425-450 flywheel HP or 360-390 RWHP to get the performance I want (min). Any of the upgraded blocks should be able to handle that and cost around 2 grand minimum. Unless a new 351 block costs less than 400 dollars, it is unlikely to be my best option. (explaining my reasoning here)

Again, I'm trying to save money, as advised, by using aftermarket parts I have.

 

[2000xp8]

I'm trying to conserve money based on the advice that this will be expensive if I go Ground-Up. Same with keeping the transmission, I'm trying to keep the aluminum heads I have, since that's about a grand less spent on the final build.

A 351 adds about 1600 dollars in aftermarket parts I won't be able to reuse (and would have to purchase) and I should only need about 425-450 flywheel HP or 360-390 RWHP to get the performance I want (min). Any of the upgraded blocks should be able to handle that and cost around 2 grand minimum. Unless a new 351 block costs less than 400 dollars, it is unlikely to be my best option. (explaining my reasoning here)

Again, I'm trying to save money, as advised, by using aftermarket parts I have.

I think what you are not realizing is that something is going to have to give, your budget or your goals, like it or not.
Conserving money on the engine by re-using those parts you have are going to cause you to fall way short of your goal.
A suspension that handles good isn't going to help your quarter mile time.
Slicks aren't going to cut it with the parts you have, with that trans and your current power level, it will probably bog, the tk0 600 has an incredibly long first gear. Unless your use 4.56 gears, you just aren't going to have enough to power through it.

You want:
handling
Drag racing
100% body restore
horsepower

All of these things cost money, alot of it.
Handling and drag suspension, are complete opposites, they make each other worse.

Also IMO, you are leaving out what i would be doing along with the suspension, the brakes with 5 lug conversion.

This is why originally i said do your body and complete suspension enjoy the car, while building a new replacement engine from scratch with better parts.

 

[blackstangt]

I'm building a budget spreadsheet, currently up to about 75 items. Life happens and I have a motorcycle build in progress, so how much I put into the car at once depends on several variables. I am planning to do as you suggest and focus on the restoration, which will include structural reinforcement and repair, suspension upgrades and body panel repair/replacement. After those items, a wiring solution along with potential computer upgrades are most important. Small interior modifications and repairs are next, followed by a fuel system and exhaust. A brake upgrade is a tough decision, because I don't want to do it twice, so that may mean selling my 31 spline axles for a 5-lug version and then require new wheels/tires. The minimum engine upgrades are a few small items that I think should be replaced based on cost effectiveness, age or current undesirable design. If finances permit, I will separate the engine and transmission, replace the clutch, resurface the flywheel and modify the engine in the way I deem most cost effective. I will place my list of ideas in order of priority and:
I'm requesting ideas or sources for parts.
Restoration
-Custom sub-frame connectors, overall frame reinforcement, media blast, DS floor pan replacement, DS apron repair, Paint.
Body panels
-Looking for an OEM style fiberglass hood/hatch (bolt-on) or for advice on functionality/usefulness of a scooped hood like a 1.5" Mach 1. Also looking for good Trim and GT Body Kit panels.
Suspension
-Tubular K-Member, U/L control arms, sway bars, strut tower brace that fits around Edelbrock Performer RPM (Typhoon) intake, Strut/shock or coilover options (lighter than stock front end causes it to ride high currently) adjsutable?
Wiring-
Looking at a few options, what's the current status of TwEECer user satisfaction and power increase? Was a painless kit worthwhile for those that have it? Door/window motor sources?
Interior
-Parts seem to be getting expensive, what dyes or paints have people used with good result? Any comfortable, light seats that are fairly cheap and can be reclined/on tracks?
Fuel System
-Anyone with experience refurbishing your tank, any links on required fuel flow, fuel pump and lines (lines are of restoration importance) adjustable FPR advice?
Exhaust
-Header options (1-3/4" to 3") for maximum ground clearance w/ longtubes and post crossmember x-pipe.
Has anyone done after-axle mufflers? Would this increase or decrease performance? Trying to think outside the box here, shouldn't cost much. Looking at the area, there should be enough room if placed vertically. I am always concerned about the space between the Subframe connectors and DS as well as a ground clearance increase (for things like speed bumps).
Brakes
-5-lug would mean new wheels, so I could go 17" and get 13" brakes and rear disk, but that would mean replacing current 31 spline axles. Worthwhile? Or save about $1500 and do Interceptor Crown Vic disk brakes on current 4-lug equipment?
Engine
-In order of priority: Oil pan with low oil sensor (possibly one designed for cooling)/ Dual sump oil pump (explorer one from crate motor is single), Coil (never changed), Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator, Underdrive pullies, Phenolic Spacer? If budget allows: higher compression 347 stroker on a new block with current heads worked with aftermarket roller rockers. I would expect 40-50 hp from displacement, 10-15 hp from compression 15-20 hp from tune and pullies, 10-15? from the head work and exhaust, so an average estimate at about 80HP extra. This would certainly add low end torque (displacement alone) for the launch, bringing a car that is capable of 12s now (13.1 before a few mods, before I fixed wheel hop and had crappy tires) into either the 11s or at least a steady 12.0##. Moving weight to the rear, removing some weight, and suspension upgrades (LCA) should help too. (Reminder: This is the last priority of the budget and not where I'm looking for the most advice)
Air Conditioning, Aftermarket/OEM style?

 

[91TwighlightGT]

I'm requesting ideas or sources for parts.
Restoration
-Custom sub-frame connectors, overall frame reinforcement, media blast, DS floor pan replacement, DS apron repair, Paint.

Out of curiosity, why do the custom sub-frame connectors? MM makes good pieces that offer good ground clearance, too, and they aren't very expensive.

Body panels
-Looking for an OEM style fiberglass hood/hatch (bolt-on) or for advice on functionality/usefulness of a scooped hood like a 1.5" Mach 1. Also looking for good Trim and GT Body Kit panels.

Fiberglass hatches are available from HO Fibertrends, Cervini's, and Design Concepts. There may be more places, too, but these are what I remember. My experiences with the hatches here...

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...out-sealing-up-the-glass.855358/#post-8630010

I like my Cervini's Mach 1 Hood on the GT, but I do not use the ram air setup. My understanding is that the ram air typically only works at 70+ MPH, so I didn't think it was worth it.

I will also say that if you are concerned with lightening the car, the Cervini's hoods are not that light. They are strong, though, and the latch is reinforced, which I like for a street car without hood pins. I also have a fiberglass stock hood from HO Fibertrends, which I like a lot, but it doesn't have the reinforced latch which makes me nervous.

Suspension
-Tubular K-Member, U/L control arms, sway bars, strut tower brace that fits around Edelbrock Performer RPM (Typhoon) intake, Strut/shock or coilover options (lighter than stock front end causes it to ride high currently) adjsutable?

I would definitely go coilover if you are doing all that. Better ride and handling in one package, and you lose some weight and have infinite height adjustment and the ability to corner weight.

Wiring-
Looking at a few options, what's the current status of TwEECer user satisfaction and power increase? Was a painless kit worthwhile for those that have it? Door/window motor sources?

Interior
-Parts seem to be getting expensive, what dyes or paints have people used with good result? Any comfortable, light seats that are fairly cheap and can be reclined/on tracks?
Fuel System
-Anyone with experience refurbishing your tank, any links on required fuel flow, fuel pump and lines (lines are of restoration importance) adjustable FPR advice?
Exhaust
-Header options (1-3/4" to 3") for maximum ground clearance w/ longtubes and post crossmember x-pipe.
Has anyone done after-axle mufflers? Would this increase or decrease performance? Trying to think outside the box here, shouldn't cost much. Looking at the area, there should be enough room if placed vertically. I am always concerned about the space between the Subframe connectors and DS as well as a ground clearance increase (for things like speed bumps).
Brakes
-5-lug would mean new wheels, so I could go 17" and get 13" brakes and rear disk, but that would mean replacing current 31 spline axles. Worthwhile? Or save about $1500 and do Interceptor Crown Vic disk brakes on current 4-lug equipment?

It just depends on what you want to do. For the best braking, you will need to upgrade to five lug. You also get the better hub and spindle design from the SN-95, which is nice. I think you will want a 17 inch wheel, too. If it were me, and I was doing all the suspension work that you plan, I would upgrade.

Engine
-In order of priority: Oil pan with low oil sensor (possibly one designed for cooling)/ Dual sump oil pump (explorer one from crate motor is single), Coil (never changed), Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator, Underdrive pullies, Phenolic Spacer? If budget allows: higher compression 347 stroker on a new block with current heads worked with aftermarket roller rockers. I would expect 40-50 hp from displacement, 10-15 hp from compression 15-20 hp from tune and pullies, 10-15? from the head work and exhaust, so an average estimate at about 80HP extra. This would certainly add low end torque (displacement alone) for the launch, bringing a car that is capable of 12s now (13.1 before a few mods, before I fixed wheel hop and had crappy tires) into either the 11s or at least a steady 12.0##. Moving weight to the rear, removing some weight, and suspension upgrades (LCA) should help too. (Reminder: This is the last priority of the budget and not where I'm looking for the most advice)
Air Conditioning, Aftermarket/OEM style?

This is looking better in terms of organization.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

You seem to have a lot of concern regarding exhaust clearance. If that is the case, do not use long tube headers. Their performance gain will be marginal for the amount of headache they will cause you. If you use shortys with a good quality x-pipe and catback, you will not have any issues with the exhaust. Nothing should get in the way of the subframe connectors. The chassis has big, honkin provisions for mufflers so why try to squeeze them behind the axle?

 

[blackstangt]

You seem to have a lot of concern regarding exhaust clearance. If that is the case, do not use long tube headers. Their performance gain will be marginal for the amount of headache they will cause you. If you use shortys with a good quality x-pipe and catback, you will not have any issues with the exhaust. Nothing should get in the way of the subframe connectors. The chassis has big, honkin provisions for mufflers so why try to squeeze them behind the axle?

The dyno numbers I've seen are significantly higher for long tubes, I figure the large flanges on the flowtechs and their design are why it's such an issue. I'm hoping others have had better experiences with other brands, I scrape all the time...
Dyno Results (and a good read): book link

The current mufflers would be the lowest object after changing the headers, and I'm trying to have as much ground clearance as possible, so I can lower the car a little with no negative effects. Humor me here, I know this is a little out of the ordinary.

 

[N8Dogg98]

Your in-depth knowledge is impressive... in fact, I wonder why you've bothered asking any questions since you seem to know everything anyways. This seems more like a *look at me* thread than an honest discussion about assisting you in your build plans...

 

[fiveohwblow]

 

[stykthyn]

Your in-depth knowledge is impressive... in fact, I wonder why you've bothered asking any questions since you seem to know everything anyways. This seems more like a *look at me* thread than an honest discussion about assisting you in your build plans...

Pwned

 

[RacEoHolic330]

The dyno numbers I've seen are significantly higher for long tubes, I figure the large flanges on the flowtechs and their design are why it's such an issue. I'm hoping others have had better experiences with other brands, I scrape all the time...
Dyno Results (and a good read): book link

The current mufflers would be the lowest object after changing the headers, and I'm trying to have as much ground clearance as possible, so I can lower the car a little with no negative effects. Humor me here, I know this is a little out of the ordinary.

Longtubes have their place on a stroker engine with big heads and cam as well as on modular engines, but not on a small displacement pushrod engine. They are a waste of money if you ask me. You are trying to squeeze evey ounce of power out of your engine, so I can see why you want them, but they only cause problems in terms of fitment and maintenance on other components.

Also, if you are using ball and socket exhaust connections, you should be able to get the mufflers to sit higher than the lowest point of the longtubes.

 

[blackstangt]

This is looking better in terms of organization.

I may go with the MM piece and add to it (added the link to my spreadsheet), or just get materials of the same specs and weld them up. A friend removed his floor pans and basically made the front and rear sub-frame rails connect by putting the sub-frame connector inside each. I'm replacing the DS floor pan anyway, so I may do this instead. I'm also thinking about a battle-box type mod (basic reinforcement) to the sub-frame rail up into the engine compartment if practical.

I'm looking at the HO Fibertrends factory-look hood, it says reinforced with aluminum in the latch area, is that similar to the reinforcement Cervinis does. I had the professor that wrote the Jeppesen turbine engine textbook tell me that ram air is useless for a car at normal speeds, so I can second that. A cold air intake will do.

I don't know the brand, but latemodel resto seems to have the best priced hatch at 490 w/shipping, I'll have to ask them who makes the hatch.

The only bad thing I've heard about coil-overs is that they negatively effect ride quality. Something about the difference in angle of stock equipment. I'm sure adjusting them for a softer ride would more than compensate if desired.

The one thing I'd be worried about with a brake upgrade is not being able to fit drag race size wheels, but I'll probably have small enough diameter rear brakes that there won't be an issue. I could wait until my tires are worn out and swap it all then. I don't mind used wheels as long as they're in good condition and the style I want.

While in that vacinity, what about bearings, has anyone seen an upgrade for bearings? I see people making a big deal of ceramic bearings for motorcycles.

Thanks for all the info.

 

[blackstangt]

Longtubes have their place on a stroker engine with big heads and cam as well as on modular engines, but not on a small displacement pushrod engine. They are a waste of money if you ask me. You are trying to squeeze evey ounce of power out of your engine, so I can see why you want them, but they only cause problems in terms of fitment and maintenance on other components.

Also, if you are using ball and socket exhaust connections, you should be able to get the mufflers to sit higher than the lowest point of the longtubes.

I've been dealing with the issues caused by my current setup for a while, I'm just hoping it's mostly because they are cheap headers ($110 when I got them). The starters were frying, so I spent countless hours wrapping them with thermal exhaust wrap, which worked... That book showed a 10 peak HP difference on a similar setup to mine, so I'd like to stay with the longtubes if possible, otherwise it'll be worth the sacrafice in power to be able to drive over speed-bumps, uneven driveways, or pull my car on a lift without scraping.