So...... What about the hood, and the roof? Seems to me if he doesn't break the clear at an edge, then he'll end up with a Blend? Also Glenn mentions that this was a Custom mix color, so a Perfect match could be a problem..... and Here's a sample of their "Top-Notch" work that was sent home............ I'm still curious how they didn't catch this before they cleared?.........Just Sayin?
So...... What about the hood, and the roof? Seems to me if he doesn't break the clear at an edge, then he'll end up with a Blend? Also Glenn mentions that this was a Custom mix color, so a Perfect match could be a problem..... and Here's a sample of their "Top-Notch" work that was sent home............ I'm still curious how they didn't catch this before they cleared?.........Just Sayin?
[/quote
Couped Up have you been to the shop? have you seen other work from the shop ? It seems You are making assumptions based on a few pictures ......you have no clue what goes on at that shop or how many trilled customers they have or anything else about them.
Crooked Stripes
- Thread starter GLENN FORD
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Couped Up
Member
Hmmm...... I'm GUESSING there's a couple of representatives from MMM in this thread....... Never the less, I can't believe any reputable shop would have allowed this to leave, in this condition! Oh that's right...... They had Three and a Half Years to get it Straight!
Thanks 68keyblr! This is a good read...... http://www.autobody101.com/content/articles/confessions-of-a-body-shop-owner/
Thanks 68keyblr! This is a good read...... http://www.autobody101.com/content/articles/confessions-of-a-body-shop-owner/
pearlnotchback
5 Year Member
JordanB21
Active Member
I know right?
I would atleast talk to them to see if you can get a cut deal on a completely fresh, proper paint job. They would be sure to do it right if they were taking some of a loss a second time, both parties reach compromise! But hey. Do something soon, if you wait too long it won't even matter anymore because the shop will lose the will to even work a deal.
I guess if anyone disagrees with you they must work for the shop.....so nice of you to make judgement on one job
Thanks for your responses folks.
Remember...Mustang Madness had my car since fall 2008...and I just got it back in July 2012. That's nearly 3 1/2 years! I think I was patient enough and I belive I gave them enough time to do the car right. Now I''m skeptical of the other work he's done now that the paint is bad. Guys...he admitted he "...eyeballed the stripes..."!!!!
Here's the latest in his saga: I talked to my attorney. He saw the car and agrees with me that the stripes are way off. He also let me know that MMMS went BANKRUPT in 2010...WHEN DAVE ROWLAND HAD MY CAR AND DIDN'T EVEN START WORKING IT!!! So, looking further we find that Dave doesn't have any assets. So, even after I was successful in a favorable court decision, I would receive no compensation!!
PearlNotch...just to collaborate on others opinions regarding "...just painting the stripes..." I asked arguably the best customer painter in my area if that could be done and if he'd consider re-painting the car. He clearly stated that, because the car had such an off color, that the car would need to be painted outside...no door jams, engine bay, etc...because blending he color would be a very difficult task. He also corroborated 68Key's statement, that initially it would look good, but in a few years the old stripe would 'bleed through'. His assessment to fix this issue was around $7500.
So folks...looks like I'm out and additional $7500. My attorney stated to move on...MMMS has no assets to attach by law even if I won.
At this point...between all the new parts, motor, tranny, rearend, suspension and bodywork...I've spent over $30k. I can't see spending another dime on the car. I've had it for over 20 years...since i left the USAF! It looks like it's really time to hang up on my dream of restoring this car.
I'm pretty depressed about it...Just remember...if anyone asks for a recommendation for place to bring your mustang restoration project in Connecticut...STAY AWAY FROM MUSTANG MADNESS MOTORSPORTS OR ANY BUSINESS DAVE ROWLAND OWNS. He doesn't stand behind the quality of his work.
Remember...Mustang Madness had my car since fall 2008...and I just got it back in July 2012. That's nearly 3 1/2 years! I think I was patient enough and I belive I gave them enough time to do the car right. Now I''m skeptical of the other work he's done now that the paint is bad. Guys...he admitted he "...eyeballed the stripes..."!!!!
Here's the latest in his saga: I talked to my attorney. He saw the car and agrees with me that the stripes are way off. He also let me know that MMMS went BANKRUPT in 2010...WHEN DAVE ROWLAND HAD MY CAR AND DIDN'T EVEN START WORKING IT!!! So, looking further we find that Dave doesn't have any assets. So, even after I was successful in a favorable court decision, I would receive no compensation!!
PearlNotch...just to collaborate on others opinions regarding "...just painting the stripes..." I asked arguably the best customer painter in my area if that could be done and if he'd consider re-painting the car. He clearly stated that, because the car had such an off color, that the car would need to be painted outside...no door jams, engine bay, etc...because blending he color would be a very difficult task. He also corroborated 68Key's statement, that initially it would look good, but in a few years the old stripe would 'bleed through'. His assessment to fix this issue was around $7500.
So folks...looks like I'm out and additional $7500. My attorney stated to move on...MMMS has no assets to attach by law even if I won.
At this point...between all the new parts, motor, tranny, rearend, suspension and bodywork...I've spent over $30k. I can't see spending another dime on the car. I've had it for over 20 years...since i left the USAF! It looks like it's really time to hang up on my dream of restoring this car.
I'm pretty depressed about it...Just remember...if anyone asks for a recommendation for place to bring your mustang restoration project in Connecticut...STAY AWAY FROM MUSTANG MADNESS MOTORSPORTS OR ANY BUSINESS DAVE ROWLAND OWNS. He doesn't stand behind the quality of his work.
CarGuy 557, you certainly got Dave's side of the story. (Maybe you ARE Dave!!!) He's protecting his backside. I can't say much more than he's lying. The contract I have wi MMS was to complete the BODY only...no other work. In fact, I took off a week to install all the mechanicals myself...engine, tranny, suspension, rear end, etc. no mechanicals were ever a part of my contract. And just to put any skeptics at ease...I've been in the aerospace industry and spent much time as an aircraft mechanic nearly my whole career.
I admit, Dave did do a wonderful job on the engine bay. The subframe connectors and any welding was a part of the contract. This was what we agreed was considered body work. there are other parts of the contract that he even ignored, such as:
- Por 15 the interior
- Coat floors inside
- Paint the metal dash portion
So the contract was originally for $14,000, but Dave added another $1,000 at the end for parts that I feel we're part of the $15k price...and oh....$550 of that was for the special custom paint...which was originally included in the $14,000 price.
You should know that Dave doesn't stand behind his commitment. No...I'm not slamming him, nor making unreasonable demands. I'm simply presenting the data...facts. With respect to my "...unreasonable demands...", just To be clear...here is what my requests (not demands) are:
1) Bring my car back to a restored condition that is show quality as per our original contract. (MMMS states they're a restoration shop.) Don't cut corners...do it right...in full.
2) Because Dave admitted that Mustang Madness Motorsports "...eyeballed the stripes..." they agree that they are crooked and need to be fixed. Assessments by two other body experts corroborate that the outside should be blocked to primer, basecoat applied, clear, then the stripes, and clear finish coat.
3) Because I live nearly 1 hour away and I paid for transport of the car to, and from, once already.I requested that MMMS pick the car up and deliver it.
4) Because MMMS previously agreed to completing my car in 7 months, and I received it in 3 1/2 years instead, I requested a commit date when the car would be done.
Dave Rowland at Mustang Madness Motorsports didn't agree with any of these requests
So...now that you know the facts...do you believe I'm making unreasonable demands?
BTW...the bill was $15,000. Shall I scan and post the invoice to prove it?
I admit, Dave did do a wonderful job on the engine bay. The subframe connectors and any welding was a part of the contract. This was what we agreed was considered body work. there are other parts of the contract that he even ignored, such as:
- Por 15 the interior
- Coat floors inside
- Paint the metal dash portion
So the contract was originally for $14,000, but Dave added another $1,000 at the end for parts that I feel we're part of the $15k price...and oh....$550 of that was for the special custom paint...which was originally included in the $14,000 price.
You should know that Dave doesn't stand behind his commitment. No...I'm not slamming him, nor making unreasonable demands. I'm simply presenting the data...facts. With respect to my "...unreasonable demands...", just To be clear...here is what my requests (not demands) are:
1) Bring my car back to a restored condition that is show quality as per our original contract. (MMMS states they're a restoration shop.) Don't cut corners...do it right...in full.
2) Because Dave admitted that Mustang Madness Motorsports "...eyeballed the stripes..." they agree that they are crooked and need to be fixed. Assessments by two other body experts corroborate that the outside should be blocked to primer, basecoat applied, clear, then the stripes, and clear finish coat.
3) Because I live nearly 1 hour away and I paid for transport of the car to, and from, once already.I requested that MMMS pick the car up and deliver it.
4) Because MMMS previously agreed to completing my car in 7 months, and I received it in 3 1/2 years instead, I requested a commit date when the car would be done.
Dave Rowland at Mustang Madness Motorsports didn't agree with any of these requests
So...now that you know the facts...do you believe I'm making unreasonable demands?
BTW...the bill was $15,000. Shall I scan and post the invoice to prove it?
Pearl...the car hasn't been to the shop because Dave refuses to either pay to have it picked up, or trail it himself. Honestly...if you could see it in real life, I believe you'd agree that the job needs to be 100% done correctly. Do you live close to CT?
Jordan...I requested Dave to fix the car 3 times over the past month. He refuses to do the repaint...only sand and repaint the stripe. From other paint experts who saw my car...they stated that to blend the custom color and to ensure no "stripe ghosting..." the stripe would have to be blocked a certain way.
CarGuy...why wouldn't MMMS want another "trilled" customer? Fix the car according to the the Contract and do it right! Don't cut corners....
Look Dave....fix the car right! It's not any good not standing behind your work.
The work done is NOT anywhere near $40k worth of work...especially when the end product has poor quality.
Look Dave....fix the car right! It's not any good not standing behind your work.
The work done is NOT anywhere near $40k worth of work...especially when the end product has poor quality.
Couped Up
Member
I want to apologize if I have offended anyone other then those so foolish, that they would attempt to portray the Shop in question as the Victim, and Attempt to blame it on a Customer who has had his Dreams Stolen by a Sub-Standard shop having his car for 3-1/2 years! Shame On You! I don't know Glenn, nor have I ever met him, other then in these forums! However through the years I have seen many paint shops who operate like this, and destroy the Desire, and Enthusiasm a Customer has for his project! It's generally a sign of Poor Business Management, and Ethics. I've personally witnessed a local car that received a Complete Rotisserie Restoration, consisting of Custom Paint, Stripes, Interior, Electrical, Drive-train, etc., then Win the "Peoples Choice" Award, at the Pacific N.W. Roundup, when the whole job took less then four months! .... It doesn't take 3-1/2 years for a Professional Shop to restore a car, unless they're not Professional! In this case, all you had to do was look at the stripes......
This is My Opinion, and you don't have to agree with it!
This is My Opinion, and you don't have to agree with it!
65Rob
Member
I've been following along for a bit on this thread. It soesn't sound like there's going to be a happy ending, you can sue but there's no money and it sure doesn't sound like Dave will make things right so your choices are limited:
Have him fix it the way he's willing and see what it looks like, won't cost anything other than the tow which you appear to be stuck with if you want to go that route. If it looks good at least you can enjoy it for now, if the stripes bleed through later you're no further behind than you are now.
Shell out the $7500 and get it done right. The way it looks now has taken all the fun out of it for you. Most of us end up being in deeper than the car is worth, it happens. You probably can't sell it for a decent price as is so what can you do.
Sorry to see this happen.
iskwezm
10 Year Member
Sound like this is your only option to make things somewhat right. Might as well see what happens.
65Rob said: ↑
Have him fix it the way he's willing and see what it looks like, won't cost anything other than the tow which you appear to be stuck with if you want to go that route. If it looks good at least you can enjoy it for now, if the stripes bleed through later you're no further behind than you are now
Unfortunately I have to agree - pretty lame they wont pick up the car though.
horseballz
10 Year Member
Certainly not defending the shop, but from many indications, this shop may be so financially up against it, that the cost of providing transport may cut them short on having the funds for materials to do the repair. I would waste no time getting it there, done and home AND keep a close eye on the car and the shop, as it sounds as though he may be close to going under. If the car sits there, untouched, for more than a few days or a week, I would go rescue it, feel lucky that the car didn't get tied up in some sort of creditor/bankruptcy lockdown and lick my wounds!
Just My $.02,
Gene
Just My $.02,
Gene
Listen to this man. I have not followed this thread closely enough to endorse his assessment of the shop's finances, but you want to be extremely diligent about holding them to a timetable and getting your car back quickly. If I'd pulled my car from the shop where it had sat without work being done for two months before the guy finally started to remove the rusty sheet metal, I would have saved myself years of hassle and thousands of dollars.
So...what is a reasonable time for the stripes to be removed and repainted? A week? A month? I certainly hate to go this route and won't allow the car to go back unless a have a firm commitment when it will be done. I believe the delivery date, with some type of compensation if he goes beyond that date, must be written in a contract and with some type of guarantee the stripes won't ghost.
Just so no one thinks I 'm unreasonable...I wouldn't place an unreasonable time in which the car stripes should be repainted...so what's reasonable? (I'm hatin' it!)
Just so no one thinks I 'm unreasonable...I wouldn't place an unreasonable time in which the car stripes should be repainted...so what's reasonable? (I'm hatin' it!)
Remember when you grandfather, or Dad told you one "Aw
!!!" removes all the good work you did in the past?
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