Going To Bore 0.030 Over My 250k 96 Explorer Block And Gt40 Valve Job. Need Cam Advise Please!

[waid302]

Looks like the consensus on my 250k 96 Explorer motor is to have it bored 0.030 over.

After long hard thought, I have decided to ahead and spend some money to get the bored 0.030 over and get a valve job on the GT40 heads and upgrade the valve springs.

The Piston and Ring Kits I am looking at is the Speed Pro Hypereutectic aluminum Z8KH273CP30:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-8KH273CP30/

As far as the cam goes, what do you guys recommend? B303? E303?

The valve job & springs for GT40 heads going to cost me almost $400. Should I just get new Procom heads?

What kind of horsepower can I expect?

Any possibility of hitting 350hp?

This is going in my 1964 Falcon with a carb setup.

Thank you gain.

Waid

 

[Noobz347]

http://www.flowtechinduction.com/cam-tech-form/

 

[golf4283]

I have my 302 bored .040 over and am running ported GT40's with a 3 angle valve job. I'm running a comp XE-276 and it sounds and runs really strong.

 

[88LX5.Oh]

I really don't think overbore is something YOU should decide. That should be decided by your machinist on how much it NEEDS, not how much you think is acceptable.

Don't go FRPP cam.

You'll never hit 350 HP with GT4o heads even if you were to port them to ungodly levels. You'd have to boost it or do a stroker to achieve 350 with those heads. But who in their right mind would do a stroker and run junk cast heads lol.

I'd be lucky to get 300 HP at the wheels with my combo and I have aluminum heads (better than Procomp junk, click here where Rick at RNH said he'd never run 'em on anything) B303, and aftermarket intake.
So good luck getting 350 lol

 

[waid302]

Damn. You guys are going to hate me but I was thinking about a 5.3 LS that makes 300hp right out of the gate!

 

[reldla1996]

You can hit 350 at the crank with decent aluminum heads, e.g. TFS, Edelbrock, or AFR, combined with matching intake, reasonable cam, and a reasonable exhaust system (headers would help). Getting 350 at the tires takes an aggressive cam with 302 ci. stroking would make your goal much easier. I would choose a newer cam over the B or E cam. At .050, a cam with 215 or less duration will be pretty smooth and have decent midrange power. 225 duration starts to sound more aggressive, and wake up the top end somewhat. 235 starts getting more radical, and you're trading top end hp for bottom end torque. The newer 5.0 blocks have an overbore limit of .030 per Ford.

 

[Noobz347]

Kinda hard to talk about going LS motor to make a measly 300 HP in one hand then talk about putting a letter cam under a Windsor build in the other.

 

[95Vert383AOD]

I really don't think overbore is something YOU should decide. That should be decided by your machinist on how much it NEEDS, not how much you think is acceptable.

Don't go FRPP cam.

You'll never hit 350 HP with GT4o heads even if you were to port them to ungodly levels. You'd have to boost it or do a stroker to achieve 350 with those heads. But who in their right mind would do a stroker and run junk cast heads lol.

I'd be lucky to get 300 HP at the wheels with my combo and I have aluminum heads (better than Procomp junk, click here where Rick at RNH said he'd never run 'em on anything) B303, and aftermarket intake.
So good luck getting 350 lol

I am still using those 210cc Pro comps. When i got them the local speed shop and Machinist were very surprised at how clean they were. Aside from junk springs they required no cleaning up. I have over 20k miles on mine. My dyno sheet was bad because of a C&L MAF pegging. I have not had trouble hitting 6500k going threw the gears. Very snappy and responsive. Still got to get it back on the dyno but it feels around 400. I'll probably keep the heads seeing how i want to go boosted anyways and 500-600hp is the goal of the project. BTW i'm still running pathetic 3.27 gears and am almost afraid to toss the 3.73s i have in the box in.

But yeah ive read/seen really really crappy chinese heads....i have also seen some (like mine) where the castings looked just as good if not better than the trickflow 170's i used to have. Kind of like Buying a American car made on either Monday or Friday in the good ole days would be more likely to have factory screwups.

If anything i'll just have mine ported seeing as how there are guys out there porting the 210cc castings to flow as well as an AFR 205 but will still keep me under that $1800-2000 mark.

 

[88LX5.Oh]

I am still using those 210cc Pro comps. When i got them the local speed shop and Machinist were very surprised at how clean they were. Aside from junk springs they required no cleaning up. I have over 20k miles on mine. My dyno sheet was bad because of a C&L MAF pegging. I have not had trouble hitting 6500k going threw the gears. Very snappy and responsive. Still got to get it back on the dyno but it feels around 400. I'll probably keep the heads seeing how i want to go boosted anyways and 500-600hp is the goal of the project. BTW i'm still running pathetic 3.27 gears and am almost afraid to toss the 3.73s i have in the box in.

But yeah ive read/seen really really crappy chinese heads....i have also seen some (like mine) where the castings looked just as good if not better than the trickflow 170's i used to have. Kind of like Buying a American car made on either Monday or Friday in the good ole days would be more likely to have factory screwups.

If anything i'll just have mine ported seeing as how there are guys out there porting the 210cc castings to flow as well as an AFR 205 but will still keep me under that $1800-2000 mark.

I'm very glad yours worked out for you! But, Procomps quality just seems a little too iffy for me to suggest to people.

Switch to 3.73 and have fun
I doubt you'll catch any traction, though.

 

[88LX5.Oh]

The newer 5.0 blocks have an overbore limit of .030 per Ford.

Do they have thinner cylinder walls or something?

 

[95Vert383AOD]

It is iffy...theres plenty of pics around the net to prove. I think its mainly a quality control issue. I wouldn't buy another set unless i was a machinist. Then again if i was a machinist what would i be doing with chinese knockoff heads? lol

 

[2000xp8]

Spending $400 on gt40 irons is a few bucks past what's logical.
Figure you could sell the heads for $250, then add that $400 you were going to spend on them and find a decent set of used aluminum heads for $800 and even find new ones for $1000.
Difference will probably be 35-40rwhp, which is alot in a car as light as a fox.

I also agree with what was said above, let your machine shop decide what you are doing to the block.

 

[clement]

the only set of sub $1200 aftermarket heads i have seen that dont need a valvejob out of the box are the RHS. everything else ive seen has junk for a valvejob and almost as bad of valvesprings. so even if you buy heads you are probably going to need a valvejob, and the valvejob is what makes the power. if i were going to run a set at the track on a 302/306 i would rather have a set of gt40 irons by someone who knows what they are doing than a $1000 pair of edelbrocks or tfs tw's from summit. spend your $ how you want to spend it, but know that a pump gas gt40 iron head 302 combo will go 11s on motor. everyone worries about how much they make on the dyno, but its the entire setup that makes a car fast. a few years ago a buddy and i went in on a 347, by the time it was done the car was running 10.20s@132 on motor at 3000lbs. and it made all of 385 rwhp. the dyno is a tool, thats it.

 

[2000xp8]

the only set of sub $1200 aftermarket heads i have seen that dont need a valvejob out of the box are the RHS. everything else ive seen has junk for a valvejob and almost as bad of valvesprings. so even if you buy heads you are probably going to need a valvejob, and the valvejob is what makes the power. if i were going to run a set at the track on a 302/306 i would rather have a set of gt40 irons by someone who knows what they are doing than a $1000 pair of edelbrocks or tfs tw's from summit. spend your $ how you want to spend it, but know that a pump gas gt40 iron head 302 combo will go 11s on motor. everyone worries about how much they make on the dyno, but its the entire setup that makes a car fast. a few years ago a buddy and i went in on a 347, by the time it was done the car was running 10.20s@132 on motor at 3000lbs. and it made all of 385 rwhp. the dyno is a tool, thats it.

While i'll agree that most if not all heads need a valve job, non valved jobbed TW's are better than pretty much better than any set of gt40 irons, i don't care how much money you put into them. You will never get that money back out of them and the box stock wedges will still produce more power and have better future potential.

While you can run quick with gt40 irons if you build an entire car around them including suspension. In the average street car, they are still 13 second heads.
TW's on the other hand, run easy 12 with pretty much any jackass at the wheel and a set of drag radials.
The right setup and the TW's will even go 11's on a 302.
Not bad for a head that is on sale for $999 from time to time NIB.

 

[clement]

so $1000 for the TW with crappy springs and valvejob vs. a gt40 with a valvejob by someone who knows what they are doing and correct valvetrain, guess what....the gt40 will be faster. now, you put a valvejob and spring on the TW and yeah, its a way better head. but if youve already got a set of gt40s and have $400 to spend on VJ and springs, the gt40 will be faster with a given 302 combo than the TW with crappy VJ and springs. why, because crappy valvetrain and crappy VJs kill power. and you cant make up for that with port. disagree? dont believe me. ok.

builders and porters like Hans Fuestel, Mike Yelvington, and Judson Massingill have stated this fact over and over again for years. my last NA stock shortblock with gt40 irons went 11.70s@113 in a 3100lb lx hatch 11 years ago. but then again, why not spend more $ and go slower, then you can tell everyone you have badass aluminum heads. even though the valvetrain is junk, they need a different cam to be optimum and the VJ is non existent. so OOTB summit TWs need another $600 thrown at the combo (on top of the $1000 heads) to make it right.

 

[2000xp8]

so $1000 for the TW with crappy springs and valvejob vs. a gt40 with a valvejob by someone who knows what they are doing and correct valvetrain, guess what....the gt40 will be faster. now, you put a valvejob and spring on the TW and yeah, its a way better head. but if youve already got a set of gt40s and have $400 to spend on VJ and springs, the gt40 will be faster with a given 302 combo than the TW with crappy VJ and springs. why, because crappy valvetrain and crappy VJs kill power. and you cant make up for that with port. disagree? dont believe me. ok.

builders and porters like Hans Fuestel, Mike Yelvington, and Judson Massingill have stated this fact over and over again for years. my last NA stock shortblock with gt40 irons went 11.70s@113 in a 3100lb lx hatch 11 years ago. but then again, why not spend more $ and go slower, then you can tell everyone you have badass aluminum heads. even though the valvetrain is junk, they need a different cam to be optimum and the VJ is non existent. so OOTB summit TWs need another $600 thrown at the combo (on top of the $1000 heads) to make it right.

So what you are saying is that a valve job levels the playing field between TW's and gt40 irons?
Come on, i'm with you on the fact that a good valve job is worth every cent, but making gt40 iron heads as good as wedges with only a valve job?
In conclusion i guess pretty much anyone here with aluminum heads has wasted their money.

 

[clement]

im restating what a former reher morrison pro stock crew chief, a guy who has ported heads for top fuel teams and the founder of the school of automotive machinists have said. a maginal port with the right valve job is better than a great port with a bad valvejob.

i never said aluminum heads were a waste of $. hell, ive put more sets of TW heads on cars since '97 than i can remember. and i actually said that if done right the TW is a way better head. do me a favor and stop selectively reading and putting words in my mouth. i said if youve already got a set of gt40s that $400 will go further than spending $1000 on a set of summit TWs because the summit TWs will still require VJ, springs, rockers and likely pushrods. so your $1k purchase turns into way more. how is that difficult to understand?

 

[2000xp8]

im restating what a former reher morrison pro stock crew chief, a guy who has ported heads for top fuel teams and the founder of the school of automotive machinists have said. a maginal port with the right valve job is better than a great port with a bad valvejob.

i never said aluminum heads were a waste of $. hell, ive put more sets of TW heads on cars since '97 than i can remember. and i actually said that if done right the TW is a way better head. do me a favor and stop selectively reading and putting words in my mouth. i said if youve already got a set of gt40s that $400 will go further than spending $1000 on a set of summit TWs because the summit TWs will still require VJ, springs, rockers and likely pushrods. so your $1k purchase turns into way more. how is that difficult to understand?

I apologize for reading between the lines.

 

[gearheadboy]

the only set of sub $1200 aftermarket heads i have seen that dont need a valvejob out of the box are the RHS. everything else ive seen has junk for a valvejob and almost as bad of valvesprings. so even if you buy heads you are probably going to need a valvejob, and the valvejob is what makes the power. if i were going to run a set at the track on a 302/306 i would rather have a set of gt40 irons by someone who knows what they are doing than a $1000 pair of edelbrocks or tfs tw's from summit. spend your $ how you want to spend it, but know that a pump gas gt40 iron head 302 combo will go 11s on motor. everyone worries about how much they make on the dyno, but its the entire setup that makes a car fast. a few years ago a buddy and i went in on a 347, by the time it was done the car was running 10.20s@132 on motor at 3000lbs. and it made all of 385 rwhp. the dyno is a tool, thats it.

How do you determine the valve job is bad on them?

 

[clement]

disassemble the heads. look at the seat on some of the above mentioned heads vs. a decent fresh valvejob and tell me what you think.