Help With Rocker Arm

[louieb]

I installed new rocker arm, buttoned engine, and it sounded good. 15 min later of run time the rocker began to tap a bit and back off.

did i set the rocker correctly? do i need lock tight on rocker nut?

i thought i set it correctly. feel for push rod to get tight on the 0 lash. then the center screw has a allen key, so i tightened it down all the way. then i added 1 half turn on the outer nut.

did i do it right? why did it back off so quickly thank you..

 

[louieb]

i opened it back up, and i found the intake rocker came loose. dont know why. the one i repaired was fine.

i reset them, started it up, and again i have tapping sound.

i will have to try again tomorrow, thank u for the help..

 

[jrichker]

The Allen set screw is the last thing you tighten when you are setting the rocker arm. Make any adjustments after that to the same rocker and you need to go back and set the Allen set screw. It's function is to lock the nut so that it doesn't turn.


Michael Yount’s valve adjustment procedure

Here's an easy way to determine this. Start with the #1 cylinder. Rotate the engine with a ratchet on the crank bolt clockwise. Watch the #1 pushrods. First the exhaust pushrod will rise and fall signaling what would be the exhaust valve opening and closing if the rocker were on. As it closes the intake pushrod will rise -- keep rotating clockwise until the intake pushrod falls and is level with the exhaust pushrod - both at the same height. Both lifters are now on the base circle of the cam - both valves would be closed if the rockers were on.

Now, install both rockers. Tighten the bolts with one hand while rocking the rocker with the other hand - continue until you reach the point where you can't 'rock' the rocker any more because there's no gap on the valve stem end or the pushrod end. You are at zero lash - i.e. - no gaps. Stop tightening just as you reach this point.

Now, put your torque wrench on the bolt and tighten it to 18-20 ft-lbs while counting the number of turns it takes to reach the torque. You should hit the torque within 1/4 to 1 turn of the bolt. If it takes more than 1 turn, use a shim to raise the rocker -- each .030" shim will reduce the number of turns to torque by about 1/4 turn. If you reach the torque in less than a 1/4 turn, or you have trouble reaching zero lash even at full torque, then you'll either need longer pushrods, or to CAREFULLY remove some material from the bottom of the rocker fulcrum. Using the procedure described above, you will work through the remaining 7 pairs of rockers. If you follow the firing order, it will minimize the manual cranking you have to do to get the lifters on the base circle of the cam prior to installation of the next pair.

When I first went through mine, 13 of them took no shims; 3 of them took 1 .030" shim. Upon cranking it up, one or two of them sounded a bit noisier than I thought was right, so with the engine hot, I pulled the upper off, and the valve covers, and went through the installation procedure again. That time, 11 of them took no shims; 4 of them took one .030", and one of them took one .060" shim. And they were very quiet running.

Good luck with it.
__________________
Michael Yount - K'ville,TN 82 Volvo 242w/5.0L; 2000 Suzuki Bandit 1200

 

[louieb]

Hi, thank you for these instructions. I am confident it will work this time..
The problem may have been were i adjusted the lash.

dss instructions say set intake when ex side just starts to open.
and set ex when intake is just about to close. i must have did incorrectly. at this point i will follow your instructions.

Thanks again..

 

[louieb]

OH no.........

I was fixing 2 rockers now, nut now it wont tourque to 18 lb it keeps going and going.

what did i do? its up and running, but like u said i now made a bigger mess. the ex, and intake rocker will keep going past 0 lash as i tighten the lockers down. after a half turn it keeps spinning, even 2 turns.. oh noooooooooo.. both intak and exuast do this now.

 

[NIKwoaC]

I think there's some confusion going on here. The procedure jrichker posted appears to be for pedestal-mount rocker arms. It sounds like you have stud-mount rocker arms. Installation of the two types is different. There is no use of a torque wrench for installation of stud-mount rockers.

The sequence for setting stud mount rockers:

1. Turn over engine until the "valve" you're working on is on the base circle of the cam (zero lift).
2. Drop the rocker on and spin the stud-nut down by hand until you're at zero lash (no push rod jiggle).
3. Crank the stud-nut down 1/2 turn (more or less, depending on preference) past zero lash.
4. While keeping the stud nut from turning with a wrench, crank down the allen-head set screw down TIGHT. This is what keeps the stud nut in place while the engine is running and locks your lash in at whatever you set it to.

Do the other 15 valves in the same manner. You're done.

If you need more info, there are some really good tutorial videos on youtube.

 

[jrichker]

I think there's some confusion going on here. The procedure jrichker posted appears to be for pedestal-mount rocker arms. It sounds like you have stud-mount rocker arms. Installation of the two types is different. There is no use of a torque wrench for installation of stud-mount rockers.
If you need more info, there are some really good tutorial videos on youtube.

When the OP doesn't know what he has, there is an opportunity to make a wrong guess. Indeed, this may have happened. Without a photo of the rocker top and full side view, it would be difficult to determine exactly what he has. People have been known to throw all kinds of odd hardware at a job and not give it any thought.

 

[NIKwoaC]

When the OP doesn't know what he has, there is an opportunity to make a wrong guess. Indeed, this may have happened. Without a photo of the rocker top and full side view, it would be difficult to determine exactly what he has. People have been known to throw all kinds of odd hardware at a job and not give it any thought.

Yep, I had to read his post a few times before I saw what was going on. I wasn't trying to make jabs at anybody, just trying to clear it up for the OP.

 

[louieb]

thanks fellas. I thought i had put my sig with my engine and mods.
well to the confusion i had. the center nut caused me to think i was torquing bolt to 18. psi, but i think it was because i made an error. i locked center first.
second time, third time around. so today i read the posts and it hit me. I did not do it wrong this time. i only added 1/2 turn, then i locked nut. and snugged it down.

every thing seems ok for now. thanks again.

 

[louieb]

i emailed comp cam with my specs this is the correct way to set the extreme energy cam with 545 intake, and 55 ex.


Hydraulic Flat Tappet and Hydraulic Roller Camshafts: First turn the engine in the normal
direction of rotation. Start with cylinder number one (1). When the exhaust valve begins to
move, adjust the intake valve to zero lash plus an additional ½ turn more. Rotate the engine
over again until the intake valve reaches maximum lift and is almost all the way back down.


Then set the exhaust valve to zero lash plus ½ turn. Adjust the valves on each cylinder in this
manner until all valves are adjusted. If the engine has nonadjustable rocker arms, a lifter
preload of .020” to .040” must be maintained. See “Non-Adjustable Rocker Arms” section for
proper preload instruction

 

[louieb]

I use the eoic method..


Start at cylinder one. When the exhaust is just starting to open you set the intake. The watch and when the intake is closing, ( when it gets just past halfway) you set the exhaust. Here is a set of instructions.

 

[louieb]

ok guys I found another variable when setting the valve lash. Here is the mistake everyone keeps on making, i did.
when u set lash they say turn the polly lock till hand tight, or when pushrod stops spinning. this is wrong.

the correct way is to lift up the push-rod until it just hits the rocker cup. in other words you may compress the lifter if you are not careful.
instead of spinning the push rod until it does not spin, you will lift up, and down on the push rod until it just touches the rocker arm cup. no up and down play in the push-rod is 0 lash this is the correct way to do it. you will not end up compressing the lifter if you do it like i had said.

cheers.

 

[NIKwoaC]

ok guys I found another variable when setting the valve lash. Here is the mistake everyone keeps on making, i did.
when u set lash they say turn the polly lock till hand tight, or when pushrod stops spinning. this is wrong.

the correct way is to lift up the push-rod until it just hits the rocker cup. in other words you may compress the lifter if you are not careful.
instead of spinning the push rod until it does not spin, you will lift up, and down on the push rod until it just touches the rocker arm cup. no up and down play in the push-rod is 0 lash this is the correct way to do it. you will not end up compressing the lifter if you do it like i had said.

cheers.

Notice above I said:

2. Drop the rocker on and spin the stud-nut down by hand until you're at zero lash (no push rod jiggle).

I don't know why the "spin" method is so commonly quoted by people... Because if you can't spin the pushrod by hand, that actually indicates that you've gone past zero lash and have actually begun to "load" the pushrod, AKA preload the lifter. There are probably some builders who can tell when they've hit zero lash by turning the pushrod and feeling when it starts to drag, but most other people are probably just doing it wrong.

 

[louieb]

need suggestions

 

[louieb]

need suggestions

if i cant get this thing running right im about to hang up the towel.

i had a rocker arm stud break on exhaust valve. after pulling it apart 5 times i get it running.
300 hundred miles later the intake stud breaks. what is the deal with that?

The stud broke on the intake side this time. the one i replaced is fine. they are side by side.
also same thing happened when it broke, i was idling in dunken donuts waiting on a bagel, and i hear it snap. this time tons of smoke. i pulled the intake off again, and yup broken.
inside the intake was unburned fuel also,

any suggestions, thanks. any one wanna trade? i don't have money or time to pull heads off this thing and fix it right. i lost everything to the sandy storm, and im sitting in a hotel. i need my car fixed, and fixed right.

 

[louieb]

could any one help me?

how seriouse is gas getting through that pvc filter? is there another reason why? is that what caused studs to break?

 

[louieb]

just thought i would let u guys know its up and running again.

for how long i can only hope.

any suggestions as to get it fixed right, and how much should it cost?

thanks

 

[Gearbanger 101]

incorrect pushrod length, or incorrect rocker arm installation would be my guess? Can't think of anything else that would break a stud?

 

[louieb]

thank you, this is what i have. the first rocker stud to go was the ex side. i replaced it with a 3/8 arp stronger bolt. i see there is improper geometry. on the roller there is a line off to the right side. its very close to the edge of the roller. so yea something is not right with the geometry. would that mean the push rod is to short, or to long?

ill be checking the intake roller tomorrow, its out in the car. i replaced that stud also with a arp bolt today. other rockers look like they are not perfectly straight either, but for now ill have to wait and see.

if you can answer is it a push rod length issue, and is it to short, or to long? thanks. im going to take it a part again and buy the tool to check in the future. thanks again.

 

[88LX5.Oh]

Might be that the push rod guide plates aren't lined up right causing the pushrod to slightly shift off to one side, which will cause the rocker arm itself to be off to one side. They were talking about it on one of the car shows on tv and said that sometimes when they're torqued down from the factory, they'll shift to one side. Best way to fix this is to loosen the guide plate back up, put something between the plate and somewhere on the head (to keep the guide plate a set distance that won't move when being torqued) and then tighten the guide plate back down. If I find a video of it, I'll post it for you and you can see if that's what's causing any geometry issues.