If he decides to go with a power adder later on, he'll need to start over again with a stronger block. If he just changes his HCI combination like I suggested, he can keep the existing short block and easily sell off the parts that he won't be using anymore.
What setup do you recommend for more power
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If he decides to go with a power adder later on, he'll need to start over again with a stronger block. If he just changes his HCI combination like I suggested, he can keep the existing short block and easily sell off the parts that he won't be using anymore.
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he's already limited to running nitrous as a power adder because of his compression at 10.5:1. and even if he wants to put a blower on it hes going to need to get a dart or boss block so he can throw another set of pistons in it then
you're just mad cause you dont know the answer to the question... why are you telling this poor guy informantion if you have no idea what you are talking about. ?
you ppl are basically telling this guy to go out and dump about 7k on a new combo to pick up more hp...the guy only makes high 400hp. lol hes looking to achive that on motor..no reason to spend 7,000 dollars or easily more to achive the goal he has set.
David Pepiton
Active Member
those new AFR 195's are looking good with a custom cam 30lbs injectors and custom tune I could see easy 400whp just dont complain when the motor doesnt last long.
Why does everyone keep saying put new heads on the car? New pistons and be done with it... 11.5:1 should put him over 400. New pistons are what 500-600 bucks?
He's currently makng 340rwhp. You can't possibly think going up a point in compression (10.5:1 to 11.5:1) with his current combo is going to net him that big of a power gain. I mean...5-10hp maybe, but 60+rwhp?!?
God, if it was that easy.
50-60... No but I can see it picking up 30ish.
Didn't see he only made 340 on motor. He may need to swap the cam out. But it depends what cams in it now. If its a good nitrous cam he should be fine since they work great NA
Didn't see he only made 340 on motor. He may need to swap the cam out. But it depends what cams in it now. If its a good nitrous cam he should be fine since they work great NA
When labor is free or you are efficient at the process, changing pistons is an option, but if you have to pay for the work (most people should pay for shortblock work) or it's something you don't know much about or do often, it's likely to be an overwhelming disaster.
Where's if changing out the heads can be done in a morning. Not to mention i don't think i've ever seen a box stock set of wedges hit his goal NA.
Where's if changing out the heads can be done in a morning. Not to mention i don't think i've ever seen a box stock set of wedges hit his goal NA.
I see a lot of really terrible ideas in this thread. Here is my suggestion. Leave the heads on the motor as is right now, they are not what is holding you back.
Talk to someone who knows hydraulic roller cams, id suggest Dan Rawls at Cleveland Performance(not the same guy as Buddy Rawls), and have a hydraulic roller done for your COMBINATION. He can also set you up with valvesprings that will work well with the cam.
Get rid of the 5.0 long runner intake, put a EFI victor or EFI super victor on it, with a 4150 style throttle body. You could use an elbow and a 90, but the elbows are terrible at distributing air. Personally, i think that all the long runner intakes are not as good as a spider style intake on a NA motor. Its a pretty simple concept to me, dont make the air run thru a maze, the motor will be happier.
After the intake, a good set of headers, with a wide bolt adapter flange would be the next thing i did. I'll assume that since you have a nitrous kit, even when the motor makes more power, you are still gonna use the juice. In that case, if it were me, id go with the 1 7/8'' header. I have that size header, on a similar sized motor, and they work well because the cam was designed around the parts i had.
Next, 42# injectors, and ditch the factory computer for a megasquirt EFI system. This will save you money in the long run if you calculate the cost of a dyno tune and a MAF sensor alone. Not only that, the car will run better, and you will have infinite tunability.
I'm sure this post will get ripped apart, so if you have any questions, fell free to PM me, i also dont really care if people criticize my opinions here, they are based on my personal experiences and my motor is very similar to yours. I went from making 390rwhp, to 430rwhp and picked up 8-10 mph on my 1/4 mile trap speeds just changing "little" things like i just mentioned. Do your homework, dont go buying parts blindly and remember, you get what you pay for, and advice on the internet is FREE.
David Pepiton
Active Member
I dont want you to think im ripping your post apart I do agree with you about the stand alone/ exhaust/ ect. but still stand behind what I said about the heads. Also I'm not sure if a small meth kit may or may not be worth it I've installed a few kits on evos, supercharged tiburons, and diesels but really nothing on a N/A setup so im not sure of the benefit i know in a friends 20psi tiburon he picked up about 60whp just from a meth but it was a 600hp motor. If the intake and the valve covers are coming off like your suggesting its not much more to take the heads off in my opinion.
If the combo is done right those heads could get him 10 second power. There was a guy going 10.1xs with that same cylinder head on a 408. I agree its not much more work, but its a lot of money and he could still go really fast with what he has
I'd find it unlikely stock twisted wedges make over 400 NA hp on the average guys car.
You can add all the fancy tuning equipment, exhaust and intake you want, they still are unlikely to see 400rwhp. The last engine i sold to fund my 4.6 was a ford racing 347, extrude honed wedges, custom cam, rpmII intake, equals, 80mm pro M, made 425rwhp (never made it into my car, the second it was finished it was sold), no special exhaust, no computer system, no race only intake, just simply a good heads cam intake setup.
Stock wedges are just plain old undersized for a 347, just like gt40p heads are undersized for a 302. Do guys run 11's with gt40p heads? of course, but that doesn't mean it's a great idea or it's going to work for a regular guy with a full weight street car.
Obviously there are exceptions, especially in the race car world, but many times those exceptions take more money than simply bolting on the right parts for the job.
I like keeping it simple, about the only money going to be completely lost will be the cnc money, which should be around $750 if i remember correctly.
Not a bad loss to gain around 75rwhp.
You can add all the fancy tuning equipment, exhaust and intake you want, they still are unlikely to see 400rwhp. The last engine i sold to fund my 4.6 was a ford racing 347, extrude honed wedges, custom cam, rpmII intake, equals, 80mm pro M, made 425rwhp (never made it into my car, the second it was finished it was sold), no special exhaust, no computer system, no race only intake, just simply a good heads cam intake setup.
Stock wedges are just plain old undersized for a 347, just like gt40p heads are undersized for a 302. Do guys run 11's with gt40p heads? of course, but that doesn't mean it's a great idea or it's going to work for a regular guy with a full weight street car.
Obviously there are exceptions, especially in the race car world, but many times those exceptions take more money than simply bolting on the right parts for the job.
I like keeping it simple, about the only money going to be completely lost will be the cnc money, which should be around $750 if i remember correctly.
Not a bad loss to gain around 75rwhp.
No kidding. Bigger motor. Same heads. The point I was trying to make is that you can go fast with a set of small heads if the combo is right
Look at this motor for example. Almost 600hp on a FAC head. No fancy parts or ridiculous rpm
https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=8ThFWc45h5c
I know it's not the same head but the fast as cast stuff isn't much different than what the op has. I think 400+ rwhp is doable with the 170cc tw head.
https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=8ThFWc45h5c
I know it's not the same head but the fast as cast stuff isn't much different than what the op has. I think 400+ rwhp is doable with the 170cc tw head.
i know i cannot change your mind, but sometimes you run whatcha got and try and do everything as best as you can. as far as the average guy if you never try to improve you will not improve. is the the 170 TW small for a 347, much like yourself i think they are marginal. but they can be made to work IMO since the cross section of the 170 is more like a larger stock valve center head. i dont know if the 170 TW on a 347 would make 400rwhp or not, but im pretty sure with a good ring seal and appropriate induction and the rest of the car being right it would go high 10s on motor.
According to the info, those are 190cc heads prepped by TEA on an engine that operates to 8500 on an engine dyno.
No fancy parts? Did you read the description? It's a straight up race car engine with pretty much premium everything.
PLUS * 10.68:1 Compression @ zero deck & 58cc chamber * Scat 5.400" x 2.123" H-Beam Rods * 3.400" Steel CHP/Eagle Crankshaft * ATI Dampner * RAM Aluminum Wheel * Canton Pan * Probe Steel Main Girdle * ARP Main Studs * ARP 7/16 Head Studs * 2.00" Accufab Headers with 4.00" collector * 5.00" oval NASCAR Exhaust * 5.00" oval Custom Mufflers * Michigan 77 Bearings through out * Lightning Air Pump (after rings seat) * Mexican 302 Block
Pro Systems Dominator Carburetor
* Wilson Manifolds / BG Modified Victor Jr * TEA / Ci Prepped TFS TW 190cc Fast As Cast Heads * Competition Bowl Blend * Milled to 58cc * Comp Cams Ultra Gold 7/16 x 1.72 Roller Rockers * Ci Solid Roller Camshaft on a Billet Core * Comp Cams 838-16 Solid Roller Lifters * Comp Cams 8138 100% Adjustable Timing Kit * Probe TFS TW 1.090" F/T Pistons
Probably a $20,000 custom engine if you had to pay to have it built.
Clement, at a certain point it's wiser financially to move on to bigger and better parts, for the most part all i did is suggest having tea cnc the heads, honestly it's not that big of a deal. Bang for you buck it makes the most sense. Selling off an intake to buy another is amost a financial wash and he'll lose a few more bucks on the cam, in all he'll get quit a bit for his money.
I try to stay away from quarter mile talk, since there are too many variables as the power level goes up, weight, driver, tires, suspension. So what may be a 10 second car to some, is a high 11 to someone else. It's much more consistent to just talk rwhp.
thats a good point. as far as what port i would use on a 347 IMO in terms of cross section and port effeciency its really tough to beat the TEA 185 TW port. in regard to Jay Allens 347, i find it a little hard to believe it made that kind of power considering Duane Busch's 12:1 363 'only' made a little over 650hp.
Well, considering trick flow rates their whole package at about 310-320rwhp, I think he's going to come up short of the 400rwhp mark. Even with the added stroke, a different intake, camshaft, etc....there's an 80-90hp deficite to be made up here.
lol....I guess if you don't consider about $15,000-$20,000 worth of parts and labour and RPM peaks of 8,500RPM "fancy parts or rediculous RPM", then ya, sure?
You and I have very different ideas of simple combo's?
lol....I guess if you don't consider about $15,000-$20,000 worth of parts and labour and RPM peaks of 8,500RPM "fancy parts or rediculous RPM", then ya, sure?
You and I have very different ideas of simple combo's?
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