351 Windsor knock I can't diagnose

stantonxr7

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
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I have a motor knock that I can't diagnose and neither can a few friends and family. The knock is worse on start up and is less of a noise as the engine warms up. It seems like the strongest noise is on cylinder number 5. The motor is a 72 351 windsor that's stroked to 408. I pulled the motor before this because after my camshaft blew up at 5500 rpm because of having the wrong oil pump installed and had a knock then. The cam gear had a couple of broken teeth along with the distributor gear having teeth blown too. After replacing the distributor gear and limping the car home I could hear a slight unidentifiable knock. I pulled the motor and replaced the following; cam, lifters, oil pump, timing chain and pulled pan and wiggled all connecting rods thinking that whatever noise I heard; if it were a rod bearing or wrist pin; would be identifiable by wiggling the rods. However, all seemed tight so I moved on and after discovering the cam gear had a few missing teeth I thought that might have caused my noise.

Upon reassembling the motor with the new parts and after breaking in the cam I still heard a slight knocking noise that increases with rpm. The noise starts off pretty easily heard and after some running and warming up it becomes very hard to hear. Someone who isn't used to hearing motors would probably not be able to hear something wrong. I've put my ear all around the motor with screwdrivers and stethoscopes and cannot quite identify the noise. The strongest area where the noise is is on cylinder number 5 at the front of the motor. I think that I can hear the noise strongest while listening to the intake runner with a screwdriver at the base close to the head. It doesn't seem to be a rocker or pushrod as I have moved the front rockers and pushrods to the back along with the nuts.

I built a break in stand just for this reason thinking that there might still be a noise. I don't want to reinstall the motor into the car with this noise and am looking for your help. My possible ideas are bad lifter(s); even though they're new, or maybe wrist pin. I know I should have checked clearances in the bearings but thought that whatever noise I had heard would be easily identifiable.

408 windsor, trick flow 225 heads, edelbrock rpm air gap intake, MSD ignition setup, hooker super comp headers, speed demon 750 double pumper.
 
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What would be a possible diagnosis of a noise that starts strong and goes weak as the motor warms up? Also, would a spun main bearing make a knocking sound or would there be a different noise. Also the motor has only about 500 miles on it since the fresh bore and hone with the installation of the stroker kit.
 
The 408w requires clearence work on the block I believe. Any rods look like they are contacting the block? This is of course unlikely but I'd be more suspicious of a wrist pin if your oil pressure is holding up. Additionally, with the discription of the previous engine failure, I would believe a complete tear down, cleaning and inspection would be in order. Replace bearings on reassembly.
 
The eagle I beam stroker kit that I purchased did not require notching on the 72 block. Had I gotten H beam rods then there would be notching done. I am a little weary of either a wrist pin or lifter being bad. But with the noise getting less noticable as the engine warms; does that make sense with a possible wrist pin diagnosis? The reason I didn't tear down the whole motor is when I dropped the pan; I found the remnants of the distributor gear and cam tooth. I cut apart the oil filter and found fine shavings and figured it did it's job of catching metallics and didn't need to tear down and clean the motor. I replaced the oil pump along with the previous stated. Oil pressure is still solid throughout the rpm range.
 
Hey all,

I ordered some parts from Summit including oil pan gasket, intake gasket, and two new lifters. BUT, I decided to review the noise one more time before tearing off the intake and replacing the lifters and really searched the block to locate the noise. The strongest spot that I've ever found isn't on the intake runner but rather on the block just below the head on the #5 cylinder. I'm planning on tearing off the pan and plastigaging the crank and rod bearings but I think it might be more likely a wrist pin.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Is there any reason to tear off the head or just hit the motor from the bottom end until I find something? What's the best way to check wrist pin clearances?
 
I second bartl's thought on fuel pump. It IS just below the head at #5 cylinder position AND I went through 3 crappy pumps before finding one that wasn't noisy. It also was loudest upon cold start-up and lessened as the engine warmed.
My $.02,
Gene
 
I also have a horribly loud fuel pump. it really sounds like a rod knock at idle and goes away after a few minutes as well as at any rpm above 1500 or so. If it were a clearance issue, i think it would sound worse at higher rpms or as the motor warmed up and the oil thinned out a bit. but a rackety fuel pump (like mine) does just what you're describing.
 
I have the same problem on my 289 after I had everything machined and I rebuilt it. Same thing... it knocks pretty loud at idle and after it warms up goes away. I have pulled individual plug wires while running hoping to narrow down the search and nothing.

Thought is was a exhaust leak, wasn't it.

Now I have pulled the pan oil pan and I was expecting to find a burt / loose rod bearing, but from a visual inspection and a lot of wiggling I see nothing wrong. I have ordered (will have on Saturday) a ford racing 1 piece rubber gasket incase I need to pull the pan again.

I am using an old fuel pump and I have suspected it from the beginning and I will replace it this weekend also. I will post if I find my knock, please do the same!