Been talking to a friend here around the house, and he is telling me Im wasting my time doing H/C/I swap, that if i wanted to see any real results to just spend my money on a Stroker Kit.. Opinions? Swapping out to say a 351W would give me more displacement, but would it be a big difference stock 302 vs stock 351? or say i stroked it to a 331, what else would i have to do have besides the stroker kit itself? Seems to me that to make it drivable, it would be outta my price range of about 1500-1800...
H/C/I or Stroker??
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Well a 302 you will need the skirts cut out of the block for clearance and also and decking or honing and possibly boreing you need done
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
Ok, and then what about the top end? You are not going to put on a stock set of heads, intake on that so you would still need to spend money for a top end. Also, the H/C/I setup for a 331 will be different than for a 302. You can go with a budget H/C/I setup now, throw a blower on it and you can easily get into the 12's and 11's with a stock bottom end. You can always transfer the blower, heads, and intake to the 331 with a different cam for the 331.
I've personally gone into the 11's on a stock 3o2 with edelbrock intake, heads, TB, 1.7 RR, a stock cam, and an S trim. I know of many others that have pushed over 400HP on a stock 302 bottom end for 10's of thousands of miles.
Sure a 331 will make more power than a 302 do to the increased displacement. However, for that same $1800 you can buy a used S trim and get 100 HP.
I'd wait until you blow up the stock block, and save up the money for a boss block when you want to get serious about HP.
I've personally gone into the 11's on a stock 3o2 with edelbrock intake, heads, TB, 1.7 RR, a stock cam, and an S trim. I know of many others that have pushed over 400HP on a stock 302 bottom end for 10's of thousands of miles.
Sure a 331 will make more power than a 302 do to the increased displacement. However, for that same $1800 you can buy a used S trim and get 100 HP.
I'd wait until you blow up the stock block, and save up the money for a boss block when you want to get serious about HP.
I'd say the opposite, you can get more power from a quality aftermarket h/c/i combo, with supporting TB, MA, and injectors, than from stroking. But you're not going to buy a quality aftermarket new h/c/i combo with supporting mods for $1800. Buying used and installing yourself, you could get there.
Spend the money where it counts, get a strong cam, explorer intake(cheap and proven), eBay a 70mm tb, 73mm maf and matching injectors, lmr sells a Cai for 70 bucks (offbrand bbk), kmj heads ( if you don't have emissions in your state ). If you do have emissions check the cost for a set of thumper heads the guy who ports.them is a genius with a dremil. I did this and kept my cost below 1200. I did take my time and won a lot of eBay bids to do it. But with 1800 you should get there. I also did all my own installation. I also get 19mpg with a light foot.
If you want an explorer intake I have one in the shed upper and lower I'll practically give the thing away.
If you want an explorer intake I have one in the shed upper and lower I'll practically give the thing away.
If you are trying to decide between a 302 with h/c/i vs. a stroker with stock h/c/i, the 302 wins hands down. Simply adding cubes isn't going to make much improvement when the heads and such are already so small. I did it with a 331 simply because i needed a new bottom end and wanted to make room for growth in the future. 331 vs 302 was probably worth 10hp, probably a good bit more tq though.
Joe
Joe
f8tlfiveo
My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.
I agree with this. If you stroke the motor, your still gonna need H/C/I.. So your buddy is just adding 2k to your build. Sure it will make more power. But 300hp to the wheels is pretty nice for the price.
i have a speed density 88', so for now i dont need the MAF correct? And as far as the intake, im not sure wherther i need the EGR or not. Which on is yours?
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
You can keep the S/D as long as you don't go with a radical cam. I would recommend getting the earlier EGR intake unless you plan on tuning the car and then you can get the EGR delete intake.
Mine is off a 96 explorer. It's egr compatable. In a month or so I'm going to have my cobra intake up for sale as well. It has. Been ported to accept a 75mm tb.
I can't remember what site it was on, but years ago some guy put a completely stock 302 top end on a 347 bottom end. This was in a Crown Vic or some other land yacht. Had the poor thing dyno'd and I don't even think it made 200hp to the tires. It was a silly embarrassment that got passed around the internet for a while. The stock 302 top end just does not move enough air, even for a 302 bottom end, let alone a stroker. Adding cubes without supporting it with proper airflow doesn't really get you anywhere.
The right H/C/I combination on a 302 will yield very good results but even if you build a 347 stroker, you'll still need to do an H/C/I swap. The only differences with the latter are the added cubes, the different H/C/I combination required to get optimum results from those added cubes, the higher HP/TQ outputs, and the higher costs involved.
How deep are your pockets?
Your friend is clueless. His theory is wrong in more ways than possible to count on your budget. Probably cost 6 grand to swap in a 351 capable of making more power than a hci 302. Of course the 351's potential is there, just not with a stock top end. Swap parts aren't exactly cheap either.
I'll skip to the bottom line, a stock 302 with a good set of aluminum heads, decent cam, quality intake will make upwards of 300rwhp. (with right meter, tb and injectors)
That's a 1/3 increase in power in car that is pretty light compared to it's modern competition.
Take the bulk of your money and put it into quality used aluminum heads, then build and collect parts around them.
Stay SD? Hell no, get it out of the way now, eventually you will need to, so why put it off.
Me personally i'd do it now while your car is stock, this way if you change the h/c/i and have issues you won't be confused as to whether it's the maf conversion or your top end install.
I'll skip to the bottom line, a stock 302 with a good set of aluminum heads, decent cam, quality intake will make upwards of 300rwhp. (with right meter, tb and injectors)
That's a 1/3 increase in power in car that is pretty light compared to it's modern competition.
Take the bulk of your money and put it into quality used aluminum heads, then build and collect parts around them.
Stay SD? Hell no, get it out of the way now, eventually you will need to, so why put it off.
Me personally i'd do it now while your car is stock, this way if you change the h/c/i and have issues you won't be confused as to whether it's the maf conversion or your top end install.
Very good point 2000xp8. I thought the same. Tried to explain to him that it would be like a track runner trying to breathe through a straw, but he didnt get it. I think im gonna do the Pro Comp heads, Anderson N-41 cam, and prob an Explorer intake or Possibly a Track Heat if i can get one cheap enough. Gonna take a little longer than i wanted with doing the injectors, TB and Mass air, Gear drive and what not. For some odd reason i didnt take all that into consideration... With the C4 and 3500 stall, a good set of slicks and a healthy dose of spray, it should run alright.
Let me clarify my statement a bit, when I said a "good" set of used aluminum heads I meant, afr165s, tw's, gt40x, edelbrock rpm.
The pro comps will for sure need hundreds in valve job work, I wouldn't use them if you gave them to me for free. While I believe most heads should be valve jobbed, pro comps would be last on the list to skimp on it.
My preference is tw's, fairly affordable NIB (i'm seen summit run specials for 999), and they can be cnc'ed in the future if you outgrow them.
No gear drive either. Basic ford racing timing chain will do.
The pro comps will for sure need hundreds in valve job work, I wouldn't use them if you gave them to me for free. While I believe most heads should be valve jobbed, pro comps would be last on the list to skimp on it.
My preference is tw's, fairly affordable NIB (i'm seen summit run specials for 999), and they can be cnc'ed in the future if you outgrow them.
No gear drive either. Basic ford racing timing chain will do.
Out of the box kmj's when they get the heads they put ALL NEW springs valves retainers lochs in the bare castings all for 700 dollars. My dad made 505 on the engine dyno with a comp cams cam 950 holly and kmj 190 castings out of the box. Read up before you blast off. And they flow better than gt40x heads for less money.
Trickflows are my preference when it comes to aluminum heads, but I will say we have dyno'ed the procomp heads right out of the box and have great results. In back to back comparison from tfs 170 to the pro comp equivalent on a 150 shot the tfs headed car made 468 rwhp and the procomp headed car made 455, both cars having stock bottom ends and similar cams. I know what everyone says but the heads work. The castings look nice, thick decks and the valve/spring package isn't that bad either. If your on a serious budget than grab the procomps. If you want something nicer, save for a little bit and grab the TFS
Coming from someone with 1100+hp, I'd say he definitely knows what he's talking about.
^^ Thanks Bullitt95
I'm the worlds biggest skeptic when it comes to new products, but I personally have tested them on the dyno and have great results. I know there are a lot of people that bash procomp for whatever reason, I have heard all the stories. What real world experience have they had with this exact product? There have been plenty of instances where we've tested new products and they have flopped, and if that was the case then I would have said so.
I'm the worlds biggest skeptic when it comes to new products, but I personally have tested them on the dyno and have great results. I know there are a lot of people that bash procomp for whatever reason, I have heard all the stories. What real world experience have they had with this exact product? There have been plenty of instances where we've tested new products and they have flopped, and if that was the case then I would have said so.
f8tlfiveo
My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.
My question to you. Have you ever used a relatively recent set of procomps? Until you have your comments on these heads are not useful. I had a set on my car and they worked great and were much better quality than people like you said they were. So until you have used a recent casting from procomp, you should just leave your opinion to yourself.. I saved prob 500$ by going with these heads and they made over 300 hp at the wheels.
