Nc89 - Rough Idle - Timing/air Fuel Ratio

89DrivingAn09

New Member
Sep 9, 2013
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Hey Stangnet readers,

I got my 1989 5.0 LX here and after making a few minor swaps she seem to be idling a bit strange, but I don't think its to much to worry about just quite yet. In fact if I where less of a picky person... it probably would not bother me. But I am when it comes to my cars so let me know what you guys think.

What happens: The car is at idle and running fine but ever so ofter you will here it drop off. the RPMs will drop off just a little bit, then it will bounce right back and shake a little bit.

Changes since I got it:
Harmonic Balancer
NGK Iridium 9 spark plugs
BBK Cold air intake
Cleaned MAF
Cleaned throttle body(a little bit while replacing CIA)
Serpentine belt
Accel Distributor Cap
Accel Spark plug wires

Concerns/still to do:
Car was in pretty rough mechanical shape when I got it
Probably needs a fuel filter
Cant tell you the last time it was timed
Might need to put a sniffer on it an play with the air to fuel ratio (tune it)

Should I change the fuel filter and take it to get timed and tuned?

Thanks,
 
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Hey Stangnet readers,

I got my 1989 5.0 LX here and after making a few minor swaps she seem to be idling a bit strange, but I don't think its to much to worry about just quite yet. In fact if I where less of a picky person... it probably would not bother me. But I am when it comes to my cars so let me know what you guys think.

What happens: The car is at idle and running fine but ever so ofter you will here it drop off. the RPMs will drop off just a little bit, then it will bounce right back and shake a little bit.

Changes since I got it:
Harmonic Balancer
NGK Iridium 9 spark plugs
BBK Cold air intake
Cleaned MAF
Cleaned throttle body(a little bit while replacing CIA)
Serpentine belt
Accel Distributor Cap
Accel Spark plug wires

Concerns/still to do:
Car was in pretty rough mechanical shape when I got it
Probably needs a fuel filter
Cant tell you the last time it was timed
Might need to put a sniffer on it an play with the air to fuel ratio (tune it)

Should I change the fuel filter and take it to get timed and tuned?

Thanks,


I do not see a reason to have this setup digitally tuned. I don't see anything in that combo that is outside of the EEC's ability to adapt.

Borrow or buy a timing light, or set the timing by ear until you can get one.

I'm not a fan of any spark plug other than OEM for Windsor motors that are not boosted. Even then, the advantages of iridium plugs are debatable. What gap did you set those iridium plugs at?
 
I do not see a reason to have this setup digitally tuned. I don't see anything in that combo that is outside of the EEC's ability to adapt.

Borrow or buy a timing light, or set the timing by ear until you can get one.

I'm not a fan of any spark plug other than OEM for Windsor motors that are not boosted. Even then, the advantages of iridium plugs are debatable. What gap did you set those iridium plugs at?
Thanks Noobz,
Im sure I need it timed, I was unsure on weather or not to get it tuned though.
The gaps came pre spaced as all NGKs should, ordered them specific to the year make and model but. When I first got the car I put in a sett of Motocrafts (same as what was in there) but I got them really cheap and was worried they would not even everything out (work well) with the new mods I was about to put on and it seemed to run rougher when I got done. But I spaced them a .054 and compared the two before putting them in and they where the same.
Thoughts?
 
My thoughts are that you should pull those plugs and verify the gap. Ensure that timing (again, assuming an N/A motor) is spot on at 12*.

You can add or subtract 2* from there once you KNOW that motor is running smooth.

You should also pull codes. There may be something going on that you're not aware of.

Old spark plug wires are OFTEN a source of stumbling gremlins. I always recommend Taylor wires as I've never come across even a single case of them not performing well.
 
Thanks Noobz,
Ill pull the plugs tonight and check the gaps, I got a buddy that can pull codes for me and I will check that out as well. I did get a new set of Accel wires w/ a distributor cap. But like I said the car was in super poor mechanical condition before I got ahold of it. I think if I just run through and do some more clean up, maintenance and double checking. Then get her timed up, I'm pretty sure it will fall in line.
Hopefully.... Thanks,
 
When the OP said tuned, I did not think he meant a dyno or a chip, rather to tune it up with new parts. I agree, a tune is a waste of money with his setup. Also, agree on the Motorcraft copper plugs gapped at .54 for stock application.
 
When the OP said tuned, I did not think he meant a dyno or a chip, rather to tune it up with new parts. I agree, a tune is a waste of money with his setup. Also, agree on the Motorcraft copper plugs gapped at .54 for stock application.
Thanks Mike, A tune at this point would be unnecessary but I was a little unsure about that at first. Im also thinking my Iridium NGKs might be a bit of an over kill for the stock set up while I'm using this as a weekend cruiser. Might work better in the future but still unsure of that because I wont go to extreme. At the same time I don't think they are hurting anything as long as my Gaps are right.
Thanks again,
 
Thanks Mike, A tune at this point would be unnecessary but I was a little unsure about that at first. Im also thinking my Iridium NGKs might be a bit of an over kill for the stock set up while I'm using this as a weekend cruiser. Might work better in the future but still unsure of that because I wont go to extreme. At the same time I don't think they are hurting anything as long as my Gaps are right.
Thanks again,

NP. You may not want to hear this, but I would never run anything Accell on my car- total garbage. You are better off returning them and put a stock FOMOCO cap and rotor on and either a set of Taylor or even FMS wires. The stock ignition components from Ford are about as good as any aftermarket part. Rock Auto is the place to get stock replacement parts.
 
NP. You may not want to hear this, but I would never run anything Accell on my car- total garbage. You are better off returning them and put a stock FOMOCO cap and rotor on and either a set of Taylor or even FMS wires. The stock ignition components from Ford are about as good as any aftermarket part. Rock Auto is the place to get stock replacement parts.
Thanks again for the tip,
Well you are right in the sense that I did not want to hear that but you're the first one to have something negative to say about Accel recently.. I'm not doubting you or but your the first to tell me its garbage. But thanks again though for the tip
 
You posted a TECH question in Talk. This limits your chances of getting some really good advice, since most guys aren't looking for Tech stuff in the Talk forum.

My advice to you is to twofold:
1.) Send a PM to one of the moderators and have your thread moved to 5.0 Tech
2.) Next time you start a thread, think about where it goes. If you are new to Stangnet, please read the terms of service and give extra thought to where your new thread belongs. There is some help in the text below to help you find the best place to start your thread.
General tech problems go in 5.0 Tech. Tech is for suspension, electrical, brakes, body, engine repair and general troubleshooting on the computer & trouble codes

Tall tales about your 5.0 Mustang, pictures of your 5.0 Mustang project and stories about your last trip to the race track go in 5.0 Talk.

Do this and you'll get the best answers quicker and not get lost in the maze of posts about everything but the type of problem you are having.
Having said that, here’s some help…



Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.

Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs

Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.

Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.

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If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

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The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

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The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
4




Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
 
(Fixed)
Hey Guys wanted to give an update. Everything is back to normal I did some double checking and cleaning yesterday and here is what I found out:
  • NGKs where not spaced properly, swapped them out for my Motocrafts I spaced (and re spaced) The tips on those NGKs all had a white film on them (not sure if that's significant)
  • Checked my MAF, Cleaned it with a Q-Tip and some MAF cleaner (rubbed the wires, didn't break one thankfully :nice:)
  • Check my connections on my CIA (all fine)
  • Changed my fuel filter, pretty sure this helped a lot because this thing looked like it had not been moved since 1989 (Pictures attached)
Once I got all that done I started back up and it ran much better. Still has a bit of a timing issue but its nothing like before. It is smooth and I think everything will time up perfectly now.
I will get the car timed and check the codes ASAP.
Sorry for posting this in the wrong spot.

Thanks for the help guys!

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