Grabbin' Asphalt
5 Year Member
Yes to both, transfer over or buy new plastic cover, use old cap or buy new one too. Steel gear, it will be on that one you order, no worries.
Electrical 91 Lx - Factory Tachometer Issues
- Thread starter cdurbin
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Sweet! I just ordered it and it will be ready for pickup tomorrow morning.
This will be my first dizzy install/replacement too. Should be interesting..LOL
Thanks again for all the help. I love these forums!
Grabbin' Asphalt
5 Year Member
No doubt!
I've already bookmarked the h@#$ out LMR videos. Great stuff and much appreciated.
I setup a laptop with wifi out in my garage so I can stream Pandora and lookup stuff on the net.
Putting the distributor back in and setting the timing.
Revised 28-Jul-2013 to include warning about putting spark plug leads in a different location to attempt a to fix a distributor incorrectly installed.
You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.
Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.
The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.
Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang if you follow the spark plug wire order on the distributor cap. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range. Don't move the wires from the positions shown on the cap on fuel injected engines!!!! The #1 position cast into the cap MUST have the spark plug wire for #1 cylinder in it. Do it differently and the timing for the fuel injectors will be off. The computer uses the PIP sensor to time injector operation by sensing the wide slot in the PIP sensor shutter wheel. If the injector timing of #1 and the firing of #1 do not occur at the right time, the injector timing for all other cylinders will be affected.
Setting the timing:
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.
10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.
Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.
Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.
ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.
The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.
To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.
The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see that the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.
Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.
Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Revised 28-Jul-2013 to include warning about putting spark plug leads in a different location to attempt a to fix a distributor incorrectly installed.
You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.
Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.
The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.
Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang if you follow the spark plug wire order on the distributor cap. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range. Don't move the wires from the positions shown on the cap on fuel injected engines!!!! The #1 position cast into the cap MUST have the spark plug wire for #1 cylinder in it. Do it differently and the timing for the fuel injectors will be off. The computer uses the PIP sensor to time injector operation by sensing the wide slot in the PIP sensor shutter wheel. If the injector timing of #1 and the firing of #1 do not occur at the right time, the injector timing for all other cylinders will be affected.
Setting the timing:
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.
10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.
Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.
Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.
ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.
The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.
To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.
The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see that the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.
Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.
Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Just for reference I made a short video this afternoon on my way home from the office.
On the way in this morning when the outside air temp was cool the stupid thing acted perfect.
I can't figure out how to attach the video so...nevermind
On the way in this morning when the outside air temp was cool the stupid thing acted perfect.
I can't figure out how to attach the video so...nevermind
Putting the distributor back in and setting the timing.
Revised 28-Jul-2013 to include warning about putting spark plug leads in a different location to attempt a to fix a distributor incorrectly installed.
You can forget about anything beyond this point if you don't have access to a timing light. You will never get the timing set right without one.
Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.
The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.
Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang if you follow the spark plug wire order on the distributor cap. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range. Don't move the wires from the positions shown on the cap on fuel injected engines!!!! The #1 position cast into the cap MUST have the spark plug wire for #1 cylinder in it. Do it differently and the timing for the fuel injectors will be off. The computer uses the PIP sensor to time injector operation by sensing the wide slot in the PIP sensor shutter wheel. If the injector timing of #1 and the firing of #1 do not occur at the right time, the injector timing for all other cylinders will be affected.
Setting the timing:
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.
10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.
Note: setting the timing beyond the 10 degree mark will give you a little more low speed acceleration. BUT you will need to run 93 octane to avoid pinging and engine damage. Pinging is very hard to hear at full throttle, so it could be present and you would not hear it.
Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.
ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.
The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side to get 10 degrees.
To get 14 degrees, set it 7 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 7 marks towards the driver's side to get 14 degrees.
The paint marks you make are your friends if you do it correctly. They are much easier to see that the marks machined into the harmonic balancer hub.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.
Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.
Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Thank you for the information.
I did make sure to purchase a timing light.
Update: New dizzy installed after work today. Super easy. Just took my time and paid attention to what I was doing. Had the TFI module tested before transferring to new dizzy. Tested good. Picked up some Artic Silver at Radio shack for the back of the TFI. Set the timing at around 12-14 degrees.
Took her for a test drive and all I can say is WoW! The car runs like a beast now. It's like another car. I beat on her pretty good for a bit and let her idle in the driveway for a while. No erratic tach needle so far. Hopefully problem solved. I also went a head and replaced the ignition coil and spark plugs. Thanks for all the help fellas. Much appreciated.
Took her for a test drive and all I can say is WoW! The car runs like a beast now. It's like another car. I beat on her pretty good for a bit and let her idle in the driveway for a while. No erratic tach needle so far. Hopefully problem solved. I also went a head and replaced the ignition coil and spark plugs. Thanks for all the help fellas. Much appreciated.
Update: New dizzy installed after work today. Super easy. Just took my time and paid attention to what I was doing. Had the TFI module tested before transferring to new dizzy. Tested good. Picked up some Artic Silver at Radio shack for the back of the TFI. Set the timing at around 12-14 degrees.
Took her for a test drive and all I can say is WoW! The car runs like a beast now. It's like another car. I beat on her pretty good for a bit and let her idle in the driveway for a while. No erratic tach needle so far. Hopefully problem solved. I also went a head and replaced the ignition coil and spark plugs. Thanks for all the help fellas. Much appreciated.
I am glad to hear you got it running good. Thanks for the feedback, it helps to keep the troubleshooting tech notes up to date.
Update #2 - Problem not resolved with new Dizzy 
.
The tach started doing it's dance on the way home from work today.
The car definitely runs a lot better so it's not a total loss. I definitely want to fix this tach issue though, Things like that will drive me crazy.
Now I'm wondering if it's the tach itself going bad. I found a NOS tachometer for $125.
.The tach started doing it's dance on the way home from work today.
The car definitely runs a lot better so it's not a total loss. I definitely want to fix this tach issue though, Things like that will drive me crazy.
Now I'm wondering if it's the tach itself going bad. I found a NOS tachometer for $125.
Time to make a trip to the J/Y to find a good spare, maybe even snag the whole cluster and resell what you don't keep on eBay...Update #2 - Problem not resolved with new Dizzy
The tach started doing it's dance on the way home from work today.
The car definitely runs a lot better so it's not a total loss. I definitely want to fix this tach issue though, Things like that will drive me crazy.
Now I'm wondering if it's the tach itself going bad. I found a NOS tachometer for $125.
Go back to my first post in this thread. There 's a diagram of the engine, ignition & computer wiring .The TFI module has a dark/green/yellow wire with a 22K ohm resistor in it. That resistor is for the tach and computer signal. If the resistor is or connections are bad, the tach gets flaky. Usually this would set a code 18, but not always.
The resistor is about 6" from the TFI connector: carefully peel back the TFI harness cover and check the resistor and it's connections. You may want to solder the resistor connections if they don't look good and cover the resistor and connections with heat shrink tubing .
The resistor is about 6" from the TFI connector: carefully peel back the TFI harness cover and check the resistor and it's connections. You may want to solder the resistor connections if they don't look good and cover the resistor and connections with heat shrink tubing .
Ok, I'll take a look at it. I don't know much about electronics so how would I go about testing the resistor to verify it is good/bad?
The strange thing is that the problem isn't consistent. It seems like it is temperature related. In the mornings, when the air temp is cool, the thing works normal. It's later in the afternoon once the temperature has risen when it starts jumping around. I don't think it's anything inside the engine bay because it's not consistent. My theory is that something in the cluster or the tach itself gets warm/hot from setting in the sun all day. Maybe something is expanding/contracting from the heat and causing a bad connection.
I plan to pull the instrument cluster again this weekend and really give a good look over to see if I see anything abnormal. No luck at the local J/Y finding a replacement tach. I did find a 95 GT MAF that I picked up for cheap.
Peel back the cover over the 7"-8" of the TFI wiring where it connects to the TFI module. There should be a small resistor with red, red, orange and a silver or gold bands: that's 22K ohms. Inspect the resistor for signs of damage and bad connections, repair and replace if needed. Radio Shack will have the resistor and the heat shrink tubing to cover the repair.
Wiring check:
Check the resistance from Pin 11 on the dash connector C250 (tan/yellow) and the dark green/yellow wire on the TFI connector. You should see 20-24 K Ohms (20,000-24,0000 ohms). The resistor is located in the wiring harness about 6” from the connector. You will need solder and heat shrink to replace the resistor if it is bad.
Be sure to wiggle and jiggle the wire when you make checks to see if there are any breaks or bad connections.
See http://www.stangnet.com/tech/cluster87-93.pdf for a diagram of the dash connector wiring.
How to identify resistor color codes.
Wiring check:
Check the resistance from Pin 11 on the dash connector C250 (tan/yellow) and the dark green/yellow wire on the TFI connector. You should see 20-24 K Ohms (20,000-24,0000 ohms). The resistor is located in the wiring harness about 6” from the connector. You will need solder and heat shrink to replace the resistor if it is bad.
Be sure to wiggle and jiggle the wire when you make checks to see if there are any breaks or bad connections.
See http://www.stangnet.com/tech/cluster87-93.pdf for a diagram of the dash connector wiring.
How to identify resistor color codes.
Peel back the cover over the 7"-8" of the TFI wiring where it connects to the TFI module. There should be a small resistor with red, red, orange and a silver or gold bands: that's 22K ohms. Inspect the resistor for signs of damage and bad connections, repair and replace if needed. Radio Shack will have the resistor and the heat shrink tubing to cover the repair.
Wiring check:
Check the resistance from Pin 11 on the dash connector C250 (tan/yellow) and the dark green/yellow wire on the TFI connector. You should see 20-24 K Ohms (20,000-24,0000 ohms). The resistor is located in the wiring harness about 6” from the connector. You will need solder and heat shrink to replace the resistor if it is bad.
Be sure to wiggle and jiggle the wire when you make checks to see if there are any breaks or bad connections.
See http://www.stangnet.com/tech/cluster87-93.pdf for a diagram of the dash connector wiring.
How to identify resistor color codes.
Great. Thanks for the information.
Do I check the resistance with the key off or on?
Any thoughts on my temperature theory? Seems odd that it only happens in the afternoon when the temp outside has risen.
Resistance measurements are always made with the power off. Doing it with power on gives false results and may damage the meter.
Some connections may exhibit thermally related problems. If you suspect that temperature plays a part, do the testing on a warm engine/car
I plan to do the troubleshooting tomorrow. I ordered a NOS tachometer off of Ebay for $125 just in case. It is supposed to be delivered today. I'll post up my results sometime over the weekend.
Well, I couldn't stand it any longer and decided to deal with it after work today.
I did the resistance tests as recommended by jrichker. Everything checked out good.
Next I checked all the connections on the back of the cluster. Most looked pretty good but there were a few "iffy" ones. I just cleaned everything and super glued down the film that was starting to peel in places. Then I swapped out the tachometer with the NOS I got off of Ebay and put everything back in the car.
I took it for a long ride and let it idle in the driveway for awhile and so far so good. Knock on wood. I'll have to wait and see because I though I had fixed it last time by replacing the Dizzy. I guess a positive out of the situation is I tuned up the entire ignition system and did a MAF upgrade.
The car is running better than it ever has.
I did the resistance tests as recommended by jrichker. Everything checked out good.
Next I checked all the connections on the back of the cluster. Most looked pretty good but there were a few "iffy" ones. I just cleaned everything and super glued down the film that was starting to peel in places. Then I swapped out the tachometer with the NOS I got off of Ebay and put everything back in the car.
I took it for a long ride and let it idle in the driveway for awhile and so far so good. Knock on wood. I'll have to wait and see because I though I had fixed it last time by replacing the Dizzy. I guess a positive out of the situation is I tuned up the entire ignition system and did a MAF upgrade.
The car is running better than it ever has.
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