how bad is it to limp a 5.0 home with spout connector out? my pip is acting up but cant afford to change the dizzy right now. and its my dd,?
thanks cam
thanks cam
P.i.p
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I believe that if you run with the spout unplugged, then you're stuck at the fixed base timing which depends on your distributor's orientation (around 8° to 14° typically).
This spark angle is used to keep the engine at an ignition timing where it can still idle and drive around a little bit. It was chosen as a limp-home default in case something in the system goes bad and the ECU looses control of the ignition timing.
You can drive your car gently, BUT be careful!!!! This angle is fine for idle and low rpms, but it's extremely retarded for higher rpm operation. Running such a late ignition angle at higher speeds/loads will put a ton of heat in your exhaust due to very late combustion. This can lead to glowing headers, melting your cats, and in the most severe cases turning your exhaust valves into tulips or wrecking the valve seats in the heads.
If you do limp it home on the road, drive it very easy and avoid reving it up too high or leaning too heavily into the throttle. Also be aware that it's going to feel like it's way down on power, so give yourself lots of room in traffic and at lights.
Good luck! I've been there many times with similar failures on personal cars and development cars. I feel for you, it's not fun. I hope the repair is something simple.
This spark angle is used to keep the engine at an ignition timing where it can still idle and drive around a little bit. It was chosen as a limp-home default in case something in the system goes bad and the ECU looses control of the ignition timing.
You can drive your car gently, BUT be careful!!!! This angle is fine for idle and low rpms, but it's extremely retarded for higher rpm operation. Running such a late ignition angle at higher speeds/loads will put a ton of heat in your exhaust due to very late combustion. This can lead to glowing headers, melting your cats, and in the most severe cases turning your exhaust valves into tulips or wrecking the valve seats in the heads.
If you do limp it home on the road, drive it very easy and avoid reving it up too high or leaning too heavily into the throttle. Also be aware that it's going to feel like it's way down on power, so give yourself lots of room in traffic and at lights.
Good luck! I've been there many times with similar failures on personal cars and development cars. I feel for you, it's not fun. I hope the repair is something simple.
im putting another distributor in it this afternoon....now on to my next problems....(new post started"english please")
im putting another distributor in it this afternoon....now on to my next problems....(new post started"english please")
still dies during driving....changed distributor.....my first lesson on not properly diagnosing problems?wtf hen I get to my destination ill be pulling out the volt meter test light and tracking this down.
Dump the codes to find out what the computer says the problem is.
Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.
Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.
Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.
Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.
Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
changed the icm...still the same problem....its at the shop now ill let you guys know when I get it back....if I do get it back!
Dump the codes to find out what the computer says the problem is.
Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.
Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.
Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
I need your help it says your a sn tech? 4 days at the shop and they are telling me its my computer.....new distributor/icm/coil/balancer/ theys said they cant diagnose the computer....when I put the code reader in it comes back 111 and another canister purge code...now if the computer is no good wouldn't I see something in the code reader? im sick of taking transit how can I diagnose the computer? im not good with wiring but if im walked through it by a tech maybe I can figure this out, also tired of just throwing new parts at it!Dump the codes to find out what the computer says the problem is.
Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.
Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.
Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
Please confirm that we are talking about a '94 GT and it runs only with the SPOUT removed.
Reman distributors are know to fail out of the box. For about $100 you can get a all new Richporter distributor.
Timing needs to be 10-13* BTDC.
Harmonic balancer needs to be good otherwise timing marks may be off due to the HB having slipped between the outer and inner rings.
Canister purge solenoid isn't going to affect anything. It's function is to draw off gas vapors from the gas tank.
Your reader is OBDI and looks similar to this one?
Reman distributors are know to fail out of the box. For about $100 you can get a all new Richporter distributor.
Timing needs to be 10-13* BTDC.
Harmonic balancer needs to be good otherwise timing marks may be off due to the HB having slipped between the outer and inner rings.
Canister purge solenoid isn't going to affect anything. It's function is to draw off gas vapors from the gas tank.
Your reader is OBDI and looks similar to this one?
I need your help it says your a sn tech? 4 days at the shop and they are telling me its my computer.....new distributor/icm/coil/balancer/ theys said they cant diagnose the computer....when I put the code reader in it comes back 111 and another canister purge code...now if the computer is no good wouldn't I see something in the code reader? im sick of taking transit how can I diagnose the computer? im not good with wiring but if im walked through it by a tech maybe I can figure this out, also tired of just throwing new parts at it!ya it does....i just pulled codes again and i got 111 seperation code 10 then 111 again....and yes only runs with spout out....94 gt how does a guy that barely knows wirinf check distributor? hb is brand newDump the codes to find out what the computer says the problem is.
Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.
Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes.
Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor.
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
Suggestion:
PIP problems & diagnostic info
Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.
I highly recommend that you read the Wells articles below. It mirrors what you are seeing.
See http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf and http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf for verification of this little detail from Wells, a manufacturer of TFI modules and ignition system products.
PIP problems & diagnostic info
Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.
I highly recommend that you read the Wells articles below. It mirrors what you are seeing.
See http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf and http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf for verification of this little detail from Wells, a manufacturer of TFI modules and ignition system products.
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