Block Up Build

[JamesD87]

Alright so I have decided to build me a motor from the block up (I know it would probably be more cost effective to just buy a crate motor but I really enjoy working on things so I want to build my own). I have read all over and have come to the conclusion that the teskid (teksid?) block is my best option. I am going to go with a forged rotating assembly (I would like to supercharge it). I get a little confused when it comes to heads, camshafts, and intakes. From what I have read about camshafts I would want to go with probably a stage 2 blower cam from Cushman I believe the brand was (if this is not a great brand I am open to others). As far as heads, would a set of PI heads work fine for me? I would eventually like to supercharge it but probably not right off the bat. And finally what is a good intake manifold? PI again or something aftermarket? I would probably be looking to get around 400-500rwhp but it would also be a daily driver.

My final question is would I have to change my stock transmission and if so what is a good upgrade for this? And I want to do 4.10 gears would that be enough upgrade to the rear end or is there more I would have to do with that?

I appreciate all of your guy's input.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

You don't need a Teksid block for those power levels. If you must absolutely have an aluminum block, one out of a '01-'04 Explorer will suit you best.

When all is said and done though, going aluminum is really an unnecessary expense for a street car.
I don't think I've seen an a modular block built yet that couldn't take less than 4-digit power figures. Just build up the stock block and put the additional money saved towards porting your heads.

If it were me and only 400-500hp was the goal, I'd leave the engine alone, bolt up a decent centrifugal or positive displacement blower up to the stock block and take my chances. Don't piss around with the bottom end, or cams or intakes unless you are gonna shoot for over 500+. It's a waste of time and money otherwise.

 

[JamesD87]

Well the only reason I was thinking of the build is because there are 156k miles on my current motor so I am worried about putting a supercharger on it and then having to rebuild the motor anyway because it killed my motor...I was going to do this build on a separate block so I could still drive the car while I was doing the build...and this build is going to take a while so I'm really in no hurry to do anything

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Well the only reason I was thinking of the build is because there are 156k miles on my current motor so I am worried about putting a supercharger on it and then having to rebuild the motor anyway because it killed my motor...I was going to do this build on a separate block so I could still drive the car while I was doing the build...and this build is going to take a while so I'm really in no hurry to do anything

Buy rods and pistons, have the stock crank balanced to match and call it a day.

 

[JamesD87]

Alright so with forged rods and pistons how much boost would I be able to run? and would that alone be enough to get me to 400-500rwhp?

 

[JamesD87]

Also...at what point do I need to start upgrading the transmission/rear end? Will the stock transmission and rear end handle up to 500rwhp?

 

[Bob Hughes]

Lbs of boost wouldn't be the concern with forged parts it's hp. Your average manley rods are rated to 750hp......can you make more.....probably.....but plan on $20,000 to make 750hp. If you're gonna go supercharged I have now learned a good set of ported pi heads go a long way. I'm running trick flow heads and cams and literally saw nominal power gains on the dyno for the $3500 it cost. The manual 5 speeds are rated to 350-400 so just like with the rods you can push more I ran 480hp on a stock t3650 before my new build.

 

[Bob Hughes]

And 500hp on a stock bottom is absolutely a no. You might as well light it on fire. 480hp lasted a couple months in my car but I already had a teksid block to install

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Ok....James....horsepower numbers aside, what exactly is it that your'e looking for from this car and how fast do you want to go?

You can run well into the low-12's with 400rwhp....and very comfortably into the 11's with 450-500rwhp.

Beyond that....it's really going to start costing you money.

So do we have a budget here, or is the sky the limit? Something tells me that what you think you need and what you probably really aren't in sync with one and other here. I've got the sneaky suspicion that your'e just throwing out horsepower numbers here because you think that's what you need to make to own a fast car. Have you ever really been in a 500hp car before.....I mean a "real" 500hp car, not what your import buddies think a 500hp car is? You'd be surprised how fast it is.

 

[Bob Hughes]

My build just cost $11,000 and that's at 500hp. And 500hp is a lot of car. Do yourself a favor a set a budget and see what you can reach with that because speed is really like a drug. You won't wanna stop til you reach your goal believe me. And when you get that high in hp little bumps cost big money.....but it's what you're willing to spend.

 

[JamesD87]

I don't really have a set budget yet because it's not something that I'm going to be buying all at once...I plan on doing this in various stages as I have extra money...I imagine it will probably be a year before I am finally done with the build...I am looking for a daily driven car that I could take to the track maybe once a month to play around with....I don't know if I said it in this thread but my previous car was a wrangler that I rebuilt the motor in...I just feel like this is a completely different animal...I am by no means opposed to using parts such as pi heads and intake and a cheaper cam...I just don't want to spend a bunch of time abd money to have it all go to waste because I used a sub par part...

So it's sounding more like a teksid block (I have found a few for right at 300 which is cheaper than the stick blocks I have found) stock crankshaft? Forged rods and pistons, a ported set of pi heads abd a pi intake (can you port an intake also), and a supercharger.

The 400-500 rwhp was just a number I thought I could hit on my budget...I am perfectly fine with only 400 or even 350 if that means I don't have to replace my rear end or tranny because I would rather not have to do those things.

Sorry if this isn't making complete sense...I just worked an overnight shift abd haven't been to bed yet.lol

 

[Bob Hughes]

If you are content with 400hp then stock bottom end would be fine. Plenty of people out there running for years at 400hp. If you still want to rebuild and have a fresh engine then a less expensive (but far from sub par) route would be to have your stock cast crank inspected by a machine shop (good to about 600hp), and run forged pistons and rods. You can normally get sets for around $1000-1200 for both. Run good bearings. Replace the oil pump. And replace your timing components (chains guides tensioners). If you're 100% positive about forced induction there honestly isn't a reason for heads (you could upgrade cams), the blower will still flow well over 400hp at relatively low boost through stock heads

 

[JamesD87]

Any recommendations on cams? And would stock pi intake work with forced induction?

 

[Bob Hughes]

I personally run trick flows cuz they match the heads. A lot of people run comp cams. I wouldn't run the plastic manifold in a boosted car but I'm sure people do. I use a tork tech system which utilizes an aluminum custom lower intake manifold.

 

[JamesD87]

Alright so do you think I could put all this together for somewhere around 7500 give or take? I will be doing most of the assembly myself so I really shouldn't have any labor charges other than a tune after the install.

 

[Bob Hughes]

Yea you should be able to. Do you know what kindve supercharger you plan on running? Blower style or centrifugal?

 

[sneaky98gt]

My opinion:

400 rwhp is a helluva lot faster than what most people are used to. And since most of your stock components would be OK at that level, that's a good number to shoot for. Or at least to start with.

Here's what I'd do if I was starting all over again and on a budget (I've been there, trust me).

1. Get a Tork Tech Terminator kit. Allows you to put a Cobra or Lightning blower on the GT motor.

2. Piece together the Cobra blower and all miscellaneous parts (heat exchanger, throttle body, injectors, MAF, fuel pump, etc.). I'm sure I'm missing some, but there's plenty of write ups out there detailing this blower install. I have priced out all of this plus the Tork Tech kit a while back, and assuming you find some deals, you can easily do this for less than $4000, including a tune.

3. Put on an exhaust of your choice. Long tubes are preferred, but expensive.

4. Get a good tune, and you're all set.

That setup will make upwards of 400 rwhp on a stock-bottom-end-safe 9 pounds of boost, and run well into the 12s. And I promise you: after coming from a mostly stock car to that, you will not stop smiling for months.

That being said, your stock clutch is not going to hold up to much abuse at those power levels. It'll hold fine if you treat it right and are easy on it, but if you're doing clutch-slipping launches and hard powershifts, it's not going to last long. So plan on replacing it at some point if you want to drive it hard.

The next step I'd take would be the rear end. When money was available, I'd throw in a set of 3.73s, 31 spline axles, and new Traction-Lok LSD. If you're resourceful, you can do all of that for around $600.

If you still wanted to take it farther, you'll need some forged rods and pistons. Don't fear, for a typical enthusiast, you won't be making 600+ horsepower without some serious money, and you can get parts to hold sub-600 horsepower for pretty darn cheap. Keep an eye on the online classifieds for a set of 03/04 Cobra pistons (I paid $50 for mine). Then order a set of 2012 Boss 302 rods online from Tousley Ford (I paid about $170 shipped for mine). Gather all the other miscellaneous parts (bearings, rings, main bolts, head bolts, etc.) plus machine work, and you can do it all for around $1000. All of these components, along with the stock block and crank, will be good to around 600 rwhp.

One thing to be aware of, as @Bob Hughes is finding out. If you are definitely wanting to make more than 450 rwhp or so one day, you might want a different blower than a Cobra Eaton. They are going to max out in the 450-475 rwhp. If you know you want more power than that (once all of your parts are able to support it), then you may want to start with a bigger blower.

 

[Bob Hughes]

That's my dilemma now. My tuner figures I'll peak 525hp on pump gas. Starting to stash cash for a whipple or tvs. I hear they produce more torque then the whipples

 

[sneaky98gt]

That's my dilemma now. My tuner figures I'll peak 525hp on pump gas. Starting to stash cash for a whipple or tvs. I hear they produce more torque then the whipples

TVS blowers make stupid low-end torque numbers. The new GT500 makes 400 ft-lbs at 1000 rpm, 500 ft-lbs at 2000 rpm, and 600 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm.

If I wasn't on a budget and just building a motor, a 2300 TVS would definitely be my blower of choice. There's a local guy around here going 8s with one of those blowers, so I know they'll make power (up around 750 rwhp on corn, if I remember correctly).

 

[Bob Hughes]

Yea and they average $1000 less than a whipple. I don't wanna put a huge blower like a 2.9 or 3.4 because with my hp goal they wouldn't be running efficiently. I'm looking for 650.