What About Brakes?

[Mattstang04]

I took my car out for a spirited drive a few days back. It goes like hell and with the sway bars on, it's turns pretty good now. Good enough for me......for a minute.

It's fairly apparent that the weak point in the car is the binders. I currently have stock calipers, an O'Reilly's higher grade ceramic pad and stock replacement rotors on the front. The rear has Motorcraft replacement pads and stock replacement rotors.

Has anybody tried out the brake upgrade kits from American Muscle or Latemodel? I'm referring to the kits with upgraded rotors and pads. How much performance can be had without upgrading to Cobra brakes? Worthwhile or waste of time? The rotor and pad kits save substantial cash over a full Cobra conversion.

I wouldn't count out the Cobra upgrade if that is truly better than upgrade pads and rotors. One of the $2000 big name (Brembo, Baer, Wilwood) kits is out of the question. Those are reserved for guys running cars much harder than I do.

 

[trombonedemon]

You can find slotted rotors for much cheaper then AM. EBay has been really good for me as far as rotors is concerned. Only rotors, though.

 

[Rusty67]

The stock GT/v6 calipers are absolute trash. Throw them away and go to the Cobra style front break with the larger rotor. The Bullitt version is coated red with a nice pony on it. The Mach 1 version is a plane jane looking caliper if you want to be inconspicuous. I've done the upgrade and it makes a HUGE difference.

The Cobra R setup is better but requires a wider wheel or spacers and really only gives better performance under repeated hard braking conditions. Not worth it for a mostly street car.

Other than that, its time to cough up the big bucks for an aftermarket larger brake kit.

Don't forget to put in steel braided brake lines while you are doing all that.

Also, something no one ever mentions is that if the front control arm bushings wear out it can cause the front wheel to hop and kill your braking performance. You might want to check your bushings and see about putting some poly replacement bushings in those front arms. Might as well do the balljoints while you are there if you haven't done them yet. They are cheap enough and take barely any time to do if the arm is already out.

 

[Deleted member 38176]

http://www.speedconcepts.net/product_info.php?cPath=21_30_113&products_id=436

 

[Kilgore Trout]

start by replacing the fluid and use fresh OEM pads, you will probably see that will make them much better

 

[Mattstang04]

I kind of thought the votes would go the way of the bigger brakes. The Bullitts look good. Thanks for the link Nightfire.

Kilgore, about flushing the brake fluid. Is that a process I can do in the garage or does it require some kind of transfusion machine at a professional shop?

How big a difference would changing the rear calipers to the bigger Cobra/Mach/Bullitt style make?

 

[Rusty67]

I've done the rear brake upgrade as well. The calipers are not different, just the rotors and pads. The rotor is larger and vented instead of solid and the pads are slightly thinner to accommodate the wider rotor. The extra performance gained from the rear upgrade is no where near what the upgrade of the front brakes provides.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

you can flush the fluid the Haynes manual and the Bullitt archive have good instructions... Brake fluid degrades over time new fluid can make a huge improvement for cheap

 

[sneaky98gt]

It really depends on what your needs are. Honestly, if you're not tracking the car, or doing regular hard stops from 100+ mph, the stock brakes actually do fairly well. My car with the single piston front calipers will lock all 4 tires on command. If you're not using them like that repeatedly, I'd say upgraded brakes are a waste of time from a performance standpoint. Also, the only improvement the Cobra stuff has is the larger rotors. The contact area (pad size) is the same in the rear, and pretty close in the front. Don't get me wrong, the extra couple inches of radius makes a big difference, but don't be fooled into thinking the calipers and pads are superior.

I agree with Killy. New pads and rotors, along with a complete brake fluid flush, will make a huge difference. Brake fluid absorbs water over time, and that water contributes to a more spongy feeling and hotter fluid. Getting that out makes a significant difference. Also, on "cheap" pads and rotors: check out the seller 'BrakeMotive' on Ebay. I know a couple weeks ago, they had a special for pads and rotors for the front and rear for like $130 shipped. That was ceramic pads, and drilled/slotted rotors. I've been running one of their sets on my car for 4 years now, and have had no problems with them. The pads are completely silent, and dust very little. And the rotors still look fairly decent. The zinc plating certainly isn't new, but it isn't all rusted out either. They looked very nice for more than 2 years.

If you want to do a cheap front Cobra set, you have to be a little resourceful. Go to a local auto parts store and ask for 96-98 Cobra calipers with the brackets (the 96-98 calipers are significantly cheaper than anything 99-04, even though they're the same). You'll probably have to do some searching around to find them, but you should be able to get a set for less than $100. Then get a set of rotors and pads from Brakemotive, as mentioned above, for about $80. $20 for hoses. And boom: front Cobra brake kit for $200. I can't believe companies are selling these kits for 6, 7, 800 dollars or more. Absolutely ridiculous. And I laugh when I see people trying to sell their used set for $300+.

The rears are significantly more difficult to do on a budget. The anti-moan braces and backing plates are very difficult to come by, and by the time you also get the pads, rotors, and caliper brackets, the rear is a good bit more expensive than the front, and at only a minor performance increase. I'd just put new stock size rotors and pads on the rear when doing the fronts, and flush the fluid. Nice system for $300ish total (Cobra fronts, new stock-sized rears).

Lastly, the stainless lines are certainly 'better' than the regular lines, but they are by no means required. The Cobra brakes with regular lines still have a very nice feel.

 

[Mattstang04]

I'm a little embarrassed to say that I'm running the original brake fluid. It's something I thought about changing just because of how dirty it looks. Never really thought about the performance aspect. I would like to look into getting this flush done. It may be just the thing I'm looking for.

 

[03_TrueBlue_GT]

Wow, yeah definitely get your brake fluid flushed. I hope your brake lines have not started to rust because of that.

 

[superstang01]

I'm running the late model cobra brake kit. I've had it for 2 years. No complaints!

 

[Mattstang04]

I'm going to get on top of that fluid next. I want to see the results before I go dedicating myself to upgrading the front calipers. Might be able to wait til the fronts need replacing again before stepping them up to Bullitts.

 

[Rusty67]

If you are going to try and use what you got, you might want to step up to steel braided lines. You will have to flush the fluid when you put them on anyways and if you upgrade to different calipers later, at worst you will only need new banjo bolts.

 

[Mattstang04]

I'll probably wait to do stainless hoses until I get the front calipers. Take it all apart at once. I did some hard braking earlier tonight and man those binders suck after they get hot. The pedal didn't lose feel or get spongy but they wouldn't bite half as good as normal conditions.

 

[flstang65]

Baer used to make a nice kit for a reasonable price. That was a while ago though, don't know if they still do.

 

[02nightmaregt]

It really depends on what your needs are. Honestly, if you're not tracking the car, or doing regular hard stops from 100+ mph, the stock brakes actually do fairly well. My car with the single piston front calipers will lock all 4 tires on command. If you're not using them like that repeatedly, I'd say upgraded brakes are a waste of time from a performance standpoint. Also, the only improvement the Cobra stuff has is the larger rotors. The contact area (pad size) is the same in the rear, and pretty close in the front. Don't get me wrong, the extra couple inches of radius makes a big difference, but don't be fooled into thinking the calipers and pads are superior.

I agree with Killy. New pads and rotors, along with a complete brake fluid flush, will make a huge difference. Brake fluid absorbs water over time, and that water contributes to a more spongy feeling and hotter fluid. Getting that out makes a significant difference. Also, on "cheap" pads and rotors: check out the seller 'BrakeMotive' on Ebay. I know a couple weeks ago, they had a special for pads and rotors for the front and rear for like $130 shipped. That was ceramic pads, and drilled/slotted rotors. I've been running one of their sets on my car for 4 years now, and have had no problems with them. The pads are completely silent, and dust very little. And the rotors still look fairly decent. The zinc plating certainly isn't new, but it isn't all rusted out either. They looked very nice for more than 2 years.

If you want to do a cheap front Cobra set, you have to be a little resourceful. Go to a local auto parts store and ask for 96-98 Cobra calipers with the brackets (the 96-98 calipers are significantly cheaper than anything 99-04, even though they're the same). You'll probably have to do some searching around to find them, but you should be able to get a set for less than $100. Then get a set of rotors and pads from Brakemotive, as mentioned above, for about $80. $20 for hoses. And boom: front Cobra brake kit for $200. I can't believe companies are selling these kits for 6, 7, 800 dollars or more. Absolutely ridiculous. And I laugh when I see people trying to sell their used set for $300+.

The rears are significantly more difficult to do on a budget. The anti-moan braces and backing plates are very difficult to come by, and by the time you also get the pads, rotors, and caliper brackets, the rear is a good bit more expensive than the front, and at only a minor performance increase. I'd just put new stock size rotors and pads on the rear when doing the fronts, and flush the fluid. Nice system for $300ish total (Cobra fronts, new stock-sized rears).

Lastly, the stainless lines are certainly 'better' than the regular lines, but they are by no means required. The Cobra brakes with regular lines still have a very nice feel.

Going this route, I assume that you also need the caliper brackets? Or will the stock GT brackets work? I may go this route when I get to that stage of my re build.

ETA: disregard, I just re-read your post and saw that you mentioned the brackets.