Hello, my engine is toast so I purchased a 97 GT to swap the engine and transmission. I'm kind of new to this but do have a little experience with mustangs. I know that the 97 is a NPI and my 02 is a PI but I got such a good deal I couldn't pass it up. I've never done an engine swap and don't even know where to start. Can anyone please help? I plan on doing it this weekend.
Need Help With 02 Gt Engine Swap
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Mattstang04
15 Year Member
Stop. You have made a mistake and you need to get the correct engine. Don't do something that will ultimately result in having to re-do the entire project.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
Yes it will fit between the rails. And yes most everything will bolt up. And yes you will have some "additional" issues that everyone else won't have.
I'm fairly sure that if this swap is done, it will start but won't make good power. Why? Because the PCM has the timing/fuel curves for PI. For the Non-PI, the timing will not be optimal. Likely a custom tune will be needed. So expect the power loss to be even greater than the normal difference between a non-PI and PI motor.
The post does not state if you intend to use the transmission as well. Research VSS vs OSS sensor.
Just wondering how good of "deal" this really is. By time the cost of the custom tune is factored in, it seems like a Romeo out of a 2001+ Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car would be just about as cheap (without the loss of power and custom tune).
I'm fairly sure that if this swap is done, it will start but won't make good power. Why? Because the PCM has the timing/fuel curves for PI. For the Non-PI, the timing will not be optimal. Likely a custom tune will be needed. So expect the power loss to be even greater than the normal difference between a non-PI and PI motor.
The post does not state if you intend to use the transmission as well. Research VSS vs OSS sensor.
Just wondering how good of "deal" this really is. By time the cost of the custom tune is factored in, it seems like a Romeo out of a 2001+ Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car would be just about as cheap (without the loss of power and custom tune).
Wow I did not know all of that... I was planning on swapping the motor and transmission. I bout the whole parts car as it was wrecked in the rear but still runs fine and the tranny is good. I am just wanting a daily driver but if its gonna be a for lack of a better word"terd" then I should try and figure something else out. The parts car only has 67000 miles which is wayy lower than the 160000 on my 02. I am tight on cash as well. So it will fit and run with a few modifications but it will not be all that I had correct? Just curious, what if I swapped the pcm and the wiring into the 02? Is that possible. I apologize for not knowing a whole lot and asking many questions.
TeamCaffeineGT
Member
Ummmm...why not swap the heads and intake from the 02 engine? You didn't make a mistake. Just do the PI swap on the 97 and get a tune!
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
Do you mind sharing just how good the "deal" was on the 97?
The 97 PCM will NOT swap into a 99+. Why? Think about the differences! For example coil pack vs coil on plug. Huge difference in the electrical between 96-98 and 99+
It seems to me that if this is all about having a daily driver that "works" for the least amount of $$, then worrying about a loss of horse power is....Well...Silly. The focus should be on things like, "will it get me from point A to B".
Keep the transmission that you have. It will bolt right up the NPI 4.6. This avoids wiring harness and speed sensor issues.
Transfer the motor wiring harness, ignition, induction, front acc, fuel rails from the old motor to the NPI.
You may find it easier to swap valve covers and PCV system from the 02 as well.
You will have an issue with the heater return as the nipple is different. Either get an O-ring style block nipple or a heater return from a 97. Which in your case shouldn't be hard as you have the whole 97 parts car.
Get NEW motor mounts!
Drive it. Think of the $$ saved. See how it drives and see if a custom tune is even needed.
But........ Think about doing your home work next time before buying.
The 97 PCM will NOT swap into a 99+. Why? Think about the differences! For example coil pack vs coil on plug. Huge difference in the electrical between 96-98 and 99+
It seems to me that if this is all about having a daily driver that "works" for the least amount of $$, then worrying about a loss of horse power is....Well...Silly. The focus should be on things like, "will it get me from point A to B".
Keep the transmission that you have. It will bolt right up the NPI 4.6. This avoids wiring harness and speed sensor issues.
Transfer the motor wiring harness, ignition, induction, front acc, fuel rails from the old motor to the NPI.
You may find it easier to swap valve covers and PCV system from the 02 as well.
You will have an issue with the heater return as the nipple is different. Either get an O-ring style block nipple or a heater return from a 97. Which in your case shouldn't be hard as you have the whole 97 parts car.
Get NEW motor mounts!
Drive it. Think of the $$ saved. See how it drives and see if a custom tune is even needed.
But........ Think about doing your home work next time before buying.
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restomod66
Active Member
You'll definitely have the slowest PI New Edge GT in town with this swap. Sell it, and invest in the correct PI motor for the car and save yourself the trouble. Just my 2 bits.
Well it definitely looks like I screwed up on this one. I think my best option would be selling or trading the 97 parts car and finding a PI engine. And I traded a 4.0 out of an old jeep I had for the 97 parts car so I guess I'm not out much. Thanks for the info and yes, I will definitely do some research BEFORE I buy the next engine. The 02 is super clean and very nice so I would rather do it right and find the right engine. On another note can I take the head off and fix the bent valve myself? If so I will not need to replace the engine at all
Mattstang04
15 Year Member
Maybe you can make a little profit selling the parts car and have all the money you need to get a good PI motor. Wheel and deal that stuff.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
Have you every done any major motor work before?
Have you considered that when it comes to motor failure, rarely does just one part fail. Ask yourself, HOW did the valve get bent? PTV contact perhaps? Will what else happened after?
Often when a part fails it will spread the debris throughout the motor. So unless you are prepared to disassemble, clean, and re-assemble how can you "KNOW" there isn't any debris inside the motor?
Bottom line, only after the motor is on the engine stand and partially disassembled will you be able to tell if the motor you have can be rebuilt. Then compare the cost of rebuilding to a whole new salvage motor.
Suggestion. Go to car-part.com and look for a 2001+ salvage 4.6 out Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, or Town Car. How much for a unit from your area?
Just as a point of reference, when I did my swap, I paid $800 for a 2003 motor from a Grand Marquis with 30k miles. I paid extra for a verifiable low mileage unit.
Hint on how to verify if the salvage yard is being "up front" with you. All salvage yards are required to keep records which VIN the part comes from. Run a CarFax report on the VIN. The CarFax report will have the mileage when the VIN was totaled.
Have you considered that when it comes to motor failure, rarely does just one part fail. Ask yourself, HOW did the valve get bent? PTV contact perhaps? Will what else happened after?
Often when a part fails it will spread the debris throughout the motor. So unless you are prepared to disassemble, clean, and re-assemble how can you "KNOW" there isn't any debris inside the motor?
Bottom line, only after the motor is on the engine stand and partially disassembled will you be able to tell if the motor you have can be rebuilt. Then compare the cost of rebuilding to a whole new salvage motor.
Suggestion. Go to car-part.com and look for a 2001+ salvage 4.6 out Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, or Town Car. How much for a unit from your area?
Just as a point of reference, when I did my swap, I paid $800 for a 2003 motor from a Grand Marquis with 30k miles. I paid extra for a verifiable low mileage unit.
Hint on how to verify if the salvage yard is being "up front" with you. All salvage yards are required to keep records which VIN the part comes from. Run a CarFax report on the VIN. The CarFax report will have the mileage when the VIN was totaled.
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TeamCaffeineGT
Member
Why such a negative tone on this thread? I like Mattstang04's suggestion. Part out the 97 to make a little more cash, then either take your 02 heads to the machine shop, source a set of heads off another salvage unit or if you make enough cash, get a set of ported PI heads! You can scrap the 97's body and make several hundred for just the metal! I dropped off 160lbs of scrap this last weekend and make 15 bucks! Roughly 9.5 cents a lb! 9.5 cents times 3000lbs is $285 bucks! My local salvage yard charges $70 for a SOHC head and $80 for a DOHC head. Don't get discouraged and stay the course!
Why take a perfectly good non-PI motor and send it back to the graveyard? You have all the parts you need for the PI swap from the 02! Why would you get another PI motor when you already have everything you need? Convenience? It is true that something other than just the valve might be damaged, but all you need is the heads. IMO you should at least take the heads off of the 02, inspect them for further damage, if there is none, then throw another valve in it! Seat it with some valve grinding compound and call it a day! Then save up if you feel like the car isn't making the power you want and get a good set of ported heads!
Many times people lose sight of the big picture. If you are wanting to go to the dyno and put down some big numbers then you might want to consider another option. If you just want to get the car going again, dive into it! What have you got to lose? You can always return to this thread to listen to people tell you that you screwed up!
Why take a perfectly good non-PI motor and send it back to the graveyard? You have all the parts you need for the PI swap from the 02! Why would you get another PI motor when you already have everything you need? Convenience? It is true that something other than just the valve might be damaged, but all you need is the heads. IMO you should at least take the heads off of the 02, inspect them for further damage, if there is none, then throw another valve in it! Seat it with some valve grinding compound and call it a day! Then save up if you feel like the car isn't making the power you want and get a good set of ported heads!
Many times people lose sight of the big picture. If you are wanting to go to the dyno and put down some big numbers then you might want to consider another option. If you just want to get the car going again, dive into it! What have you got to lose? You can always return to this thread to listen to people tell you that you screwed up!
Something tells me if the thought of what it would cost to have your old PI head repaired has you shying away from this, you probably shouldn't be undertaking an engine swap that isn't a 100% direct bolt in.
True, the NPI engine "can" be made to work, but you'll spend some money and time scratching your head in the process.
First things first....I'd sell off the '97 parts car and use the cash to either fix, or repair your current PI head. If the engine is further gone than that, or is high in mileage and tired, I'd probably look around for a 2002-2005 Ford Explorer engine for my swap.
The Explorer engine identical to your PI engine, can usually be had much cheaper at a wrecker than a Mustang engine and most importantly, has the benefit of using an aluminum block, that'll knock a good chunk of weight off of the front end of your car.
True, the NPI engine "can" be made to work, but you'll spend some money and time scratching your head in the process.
First things first....I'd sell off the '97 parts car and use the cash to either fix, or repair your current PI head. If the engine is further gone than that, or is high in mileage and tired, I'd probably look around for a 2002-2005 Ford Explorer engine for my swap.
The Explorer engine identical to your PI engine, can usually be had much cheaper at a wrecker than a Mustang engine and most importantly, has the benefit of using an aluminum block, that'll knock a good chunk of weight off of the front end of your car.
Okay I have decided to part out the 97 and hopefully make enough to buy aother engine. My next step is to take the heads off one at a time because I don't know which one is the problem but I will post pics. I understand that there may be further damage to my engine and I am ready to tear into it IF I need to. I would condider myself mechanically inclined but by far a mechanic. Please be patient and understand this is my first 4.6 engine and my firsr teardown. I will post on this thread untill I have finished! And thanks foe all the advise and tips! Keep it coming
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
Speaking of losing sight of the "big picture" let's go back to the OP's opening post.
Further, given the experience level of the OP, doing the 1st rebuild under a time crunch doesn't seem like the best first choice.
I fully agree that the use of a Non-PI motor in a 99+ Mustang GT was not the best choice.
If this were my daily driver that needed to get back on the road ASAP, I would source a whole salvage 4.6 PI Romeo in a heartbeat.
FWIIW, I have personally dealt with two failed motors on my projects. I personally found it amazing just how far the metal debris was spread through out the oiling system.
The other surprise is just how re-build unfriendly the 4.6 heads are with regards to the cam bearings. Any oil starvation to the top end, the cams are toast. In many cases it's cheaper to replace the entire head than re-build.
Check out the NEW complete PI Romeo heads from Summit. Can you get a machine shop to over haul a head for $400? Could it be done in time for a weekend install?
Don't forget to add the cost of the "cylinder head changing kit" at $100. And the list goes on.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...mance-improvement-cylinder-heads?autoview=SKU
To me 600-800 for a whole salvage motor that's ready to install seems like a valid plan. Especially given the OP's constraints.
To me the operative words were:
- Low experience. Looking for something that is straight forward.
- Time critical. Daily Driver needs to be back on the road quickly. Time is of the essence.
- Needs to be budget friendly. $$ already spent on the 97 parts car. Finding a different motor adds cost.
Further, given the experience level of the OP, doing the 1st rebuild under a time crunch doesn't seem like the best first choice.
I fully agree that the use of a Non-PI motor in a 99+ Mustang GT was not the best choice.
If this were my daily driver that needed to get back on the road ASAP, I would source a whole salvage 4.6 PI Romeo in a heartbeat.
FWIIW, I have personally dealt with two failed motors on my projects. I personally found it amazing just how far the metal debris was spread through out the oiling system.
The other surprise is just how re-build unfriendly the 4.6 heads are with regards to the cam bearings. Any oil starvation to the top end, the cams are toast. In many cases it's cheaper to replace the entire head than re-build.
Check out the NEW complete PI Romeo heads from Summit. Can you get a machine shop to over haul a head for $400? Could it be done in time for a weekend install?
Don't forget to add the cost of the "cylinder head changing kit" at $100. And the list goes on.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...mance-improvement-cylinder-heads?autoview=SKU
To me 600-800 for a whole salvage motor that's ready to install seems like a valid plan. Especially given the OP's constraints.
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So I've got about 500 for a used engine but cannot seem to find one. Can someone please tell me which engines are compatible with my car. I know it has to be a pi but I've heard a 2001 and up continental engine will work and 01 and up crown vic. Is this true? The local junkyards do not have a 4.6 at all
TeamCaffeineGT
Member
The Lincoln Continental engine will NOT work! This is a transverse mounted 4.6 engine and the engine mounts are not in the right place for the swap into the mustang, this engine is also a 32v 4.6 and would require modification to your wiring harness. Sean Hyland documents this in his book on Rebuilding the 4.6 and 5.4 Modular Engine. http://books.google.com/books?id=KZ...otorsports lincoln continental engine&f=false
The 4.6L 2v is found in a variety of different platforms. Wikipedia has a great article on the Ford modular engine and what make and models you can find it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine
Note the HP ratings on all of the engine configurations. This is due to many factors including compression ratio, intake used and possible camshaft variations. The KISS principle should be applied here. Source the engine from a 99-04 Mustang GT. Unless you wanna upgrade to a 4.6/5.4 4v, which will require a bit more work if used with your factory wiring harness.
You also really only need a long block and not a complete engine as you have the components needed to finish the engine from your current 02 motor.
Best of Luck!
The 4.6L 2v is found in a variety of different platforms. Wikipedia has a great article on the Ford modular engine and what make and models you can find it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine
Note the HP ratings on all of the engine configurations. This is due to many factors including compression ratio, intake used and possible camshaft variations. The KISS principle should be applied here. Source the engine from a 99-04 Mustang GT. Unless you wanna upgrade to a 4.6/5.4 4v, which will require a bit more work if used with your factory wiring harness.
You also really only need a long block and not a complete engine as you have the components needed to finish the engine from your current 02 motor.
Best of Luck!
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wmburns
SN Certified Technician
2001+ Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Town Car (Ford Panther). Ford put the same 2V SOHC into Crown Vic's all the way until the 2012 model year.
Have you searched in car-part.com? What part of the country do you live in? Seems hard to believe there aren't ANY wrecked Panthers in your area.
LKQ will even ship the motor to a local LKQ yard for a very reasonable fee. This opens up most of the USA to the search.
Note, for the Mustang application you COULD use a 4.6 from a donor car with an oil cooler (Police/fleet model). Should you go this route, REMOVE the oil cooler.
Remember. This swap is going to require parts from the old motor (wiring harness, oil pan, exhaust manifold, fuel rails, injectors, EGR) so don't part out the old motor until the project is done.
+1 to above. The Continental motor will NOT work. Besides being transverse mounted, it's a 4V DOHC.
Have you searched in car-part.com? What part of the country do you live in? Seems hard to believe there aren't ANY wrecked Panthers in your area.
LKQ will even ship the motor to a local LKQ yard for a very reasonable fee. This opens up most of the USA to the search.
Note, for the Mustang application you COULD use a 4.6 from a donor car with an oil cooler (Police/fleet model). Should you go this route, REMOVE the oil cooler.
Remember. This swap is going to require parts from the old motor (wiring harness, oil pan, exhaust manifold, fuel rails, injectors, EGR) so don't part out the old motor until the project is done.
+1 to above. The Continental motor will NOT work. Besides being transverse mounted, it's a 4V DOHC.
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Post 2000 Crown Vic, Marquis, Town Car....all good choices, but like I said earlier.....best choice....'02-'05 Explorer. Same configuration as your current PI, but with the benefit of an aluminum block. All other 2V SOHC's will have an iron block. It's gonna cost you more than $500 though. I can't imagine you'll get much at all for less than $1,000
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