Downforce?

[jetmech807]

Yeah I figure there's more to the story.

 

[85rkyboby]

How about something to do with less parasitic drag due to the wing being low and on the lid/hatch and the taller wings supplying more down force since they are more in the free flowing air stream?

 

[jetmech807]

I'll buy that for a dollar.

 

[85rkyboby]

This is something I got from a buddy on another forum about the type, so to speak.. Pretty interesting.

I have some experience in a wind tunnel and can say that there is definitely something there for you.
1. The first thing to keep in mind is that all cars have a low pressure area behind them. That LP zone will create downforce, so even if you had no wicker at all the wing will extend this LP area and increase downforce. In the tunnel we measure lbs. of downforce just like you would when corner weighting a car. The significance is that the rear axle is your pivot point and the downforce is compounded the further behind the axle you apply downforce.
2. Relatively speeking....you won't start really seeing big impact below 100mph. On the other hand the it compounds quickly beyond that point.
3. If you don't have rules then you should run large spill plates. They will create no additional drag, but will absolutely steer the rear of the car like a rudder. Even more so if it gets sideways!
4. Minimize the air that gets under the car. Drag races miss this one all the time. Air under the car makes HUGE drag, it will produce lift across the whole care, and will reduce the low pressure downforce you get off the rear!
5. Unless you have access to a wind tunnel don't spend a lot of money on a wing because every car is different and you really should try some different combinations.
Here's a quick stat to think about. Door mirrors consumer about 25hp @ 100mph

 

[Noobz347]

I'm sure there's a very good reason for the two different styles, but I don't have the foggiest idea what it is. I'd be interested in that myself.

How about this, the wing is a lot less susceptible to damage from another car hitting you in a corner than a pro stock style spoiler.

Which two different styles? Did the discussion turn to rear wing or are we still talking about front splitter/air dam?

 

[85rkyboby]

A

Which two different styles? Did the discussion turn to rear wing or are we still talking about front splitter/air dam?

Ah chit! Yea, wondered off topic into rear wings... my fault.

 

[Noobz347]

This is something I got from a buddy on another forum about the type, so to speak.. Pretty interesting.

I have some experience in a wind tunnel and can say that there is definitely something there for you.
1. The first thing to keep in mind is that all cars have a low pressure area behind them. That LP zone will create downforce, so even if you had no wicker at all the wing will extend this LP area and increase downforce. In the tunnel we measure lbs. of downforce just like you would when corner weighting a car. The significance is that the rear axle is your pivot point and the downforce is compounded the further behind the axle you apply downforce.
2. Relatively speeking....you won't start really seeing big impact below 100mph. On the other hand the it compounds quickly beyond that point.
3. If you don't have rules then you should run large spill plates. They will create no additional drag, but will absolutely steer the rear of the car like a rudder. Even more so if it gets sideways!
4. Minimize the air that gets under the car. Drag races miss this one all the time. Air under the car makes HUGE drag, it will produce lift across the whole care, and will reduce the low pressure downforce you get off the rear!
5. Unless you have access to a wind tunnel don't spend a lot of money on a wing because every car is different and you really should try some different combinations.
Here's a quick stat to think about. Door mirrors consumer about 25hp @ 100mph

Another way to state to what your friend is getting at here, is this:

Rough surfaces allow the air stream to 'spoil'.

Any air foil will have high pressure where the air is slowest and low pressure where the air is fastest.

Fix a long wing to the rear. The air splits at the nose of the car. Some air goes high while some goes low. Thing is... They will still all meet at the tail of the car at the same time starting from where they separated. The air comes up the back of the car and increases speed over the bottom of the rear spoiler. This is low pressure. The higher pressure on-top of the wind pushes down. The back of the car gets more weight.

Increase the size of the air damn and this changes nearly everything. Now you have considerably more air moving over the top of the car than the bottom. It was moving the fastest (larger air foil) before we created this huge low pressure area (vacuum) under the car. The air is moving pretty darned fast because there isn't quite enough of it to fill the space beneath the car. In addition... it STILL has to make that vertical climb over the bumper and across the rear wing to meet up with his buddy molecule up top. Now the whole car gets heavier.

All of these things cost energy. Bending this air to your will requires/costs HP. Doing it with flying brick costs a little more.

Keeping the flying brick in constant contact with the track surface... Priceless.

 

[85rkyboby]

Holy crap! Okay so the air doesn't just go over/under the car and shoot out the back, so to speak. The Low Pressure(Larger Air Foil) air coming out of the bottom of the car actually climbs up the rear bumper then hits the bottom of the rear wing. After it hits the bottom of the rear wing it then flows back and out of under the wing I presume?

This balancing act of front and rear is making a little more sense now, at least splitter/wing wise. How does increasing the low pressure from a lower front air damn affect the ride of a something with say a stock spoiler? Would that result in over-steer? I'd like to learn a bit more in detail on this. As well as possibly getting into how the angle at which the splitter/wing is fixed affects down force & parasitic drag.

 

[85rkyboby]

Reading more into this subject of rear wings. How does the mounting of the wing affect operation? Idk anyone personally that has a wing setup like this. From what I've read though you're suppose to mount the wing to the chassis.

 

[jetmech807]

Another way to state to what your friend is getting at here, is this:

Rough surfaces allow the air stream to 'spoil'.

Any air foil will have high pressure where the air is slowest and low pressure where the air is fastest.

Fix a long wing to the rear. The air splits at the nose of the car. Some air goes high while some goes low. Thing is... They will still all meet at the tail of the car at the same time starting from where they separated. The air comes up the back of the car and increases speed over the bottom of the rear spoiler. This is low pressure. The higher pressure on-top of the wind pushes down. The back of the car gets more weight.

Increase the size of the air damn and this changes nearly everything. Now you have considerably more air moving over the top of the car than the bottom. It was moving the fastest (larger air foil) before we created this huge low pressure area (vacuum) under the car. The air is moving pretty darned fast because there isn't quite enough of it to fill the space beneath the car. In addition... it STILL has to make that vertical climb over the bumper and across the rear wing to meet up with his buddy molecule up top. Now the whole car gets heavier.

All of these things cost energy. Bending this air to your will requires/costs HP. Doing it with flying brick costs a little more.

Keeping the flying brick in constant contact with the track surface... Priceless.

You studied Bernoulli. [emoji12]

 

[jetmech807]

Saw this today. Thought I'd post it. Steeds race wing

 

[jetmech807]

Steeds posted this, this morning. That looks good. A guy here in town put one of these wings on an SN95 and looks good. Not sure if it is "functional", but it looked good.