A 5.0 Block With Toploader Trans-in A 67

[boomer300]

My 289 engine in my 67 Fastback is running out of time. It's at 40 over, crank is 20/20 and it's making knocks. So, I was thinking of using an 85 5.0 roller block that I have to stroke my engine to 347". I believe that my water pump and timing cover will work from the 289-so I don't need a new radiator for the reverse rotating water pump on the 5,0. Heads, intake manifold and carb should work. A 5.0 distributor would be needed-I have one. My headers should bolt up. I have to get a clutch adapter for the toploader I believe-cheaper than a hydraulic conversion? Flywheel and harmonic balancer need to change??-or does that get determined by the stroker components? Someone has had to do this before me I bet, so correct me if I'm wrong, or please feel free to criticize or make suggestions. I appreciate it. thanks

Read more: http://forums.mustangandfords.com/m.../50-block-with-toploader-trans/#ixzz3FVdz1B5E

 

[horse sence]

You will need a 67 oil pan for the front sump oil pump.The
Bell housing for the 5.0 will not work ,it will have to be an early bell housing ,67 clutch linkage will work . Motor mounts and trans mount will be 67 mounts .
Fly wheel will be the 5.0 and the balancer will be the 5.0 not the early 302, if going V belt instead of serpentine you will need a balancer for the 5.0 and pulleys for V belt . Timing cover and water pump will both have to be changed to the early 302 /289 . The entire rotating assembly will need to be balanced for the stroker kit

 

[boomer300]

Wow. Great information. I really appreciate it. Several people were concerned that the clutch from the 67 wouldn't work, so that's good news and a little cheaper too. Methinks you have done a bit of this stuff!! thanks again

 

[tos]

I'm not sure but maybe Horse can answer but is the 5.0 block drilled and tapped for the clutch zbar?

 

[horse sence]

That is true ,the block is not drilled for the z bar ,forgot that .

 

[horse sence]

There is a simple bolt on bracket for the Z bar stud to block so you can use the 67 Z bar ,found this at Dallas Mustang

 

[boomer300]

Do I tap/thread the block for install? Template comes with it I hope. This seems like a clean swap for the most part. Your thoughts on this...I have run '70 351 W heads with 1.96/1.6 valves and VERY mild exhaust port blend on the 289 with Comp magnum roller tip/rail rockers. I have a pair of GT 40 iron heads off early '90s Cobra. Roller 1.7 Crane rockers, new springs and 2.02 intakes. You guys like either/one/none? AFRs are pricey.

 

[tos]

No drilling, that bracket is a bolt on (existing bell housing to engine bolts) and I think either of those heads will work well but depends on what other mods you are doing. The only thing that I see in your post that you might want to verify is that 1.7 ratio rocker and whether they will work with your mix without clearance issues. Are you going with stock pistons?

 

[65ShelbyClone]

So, I was thinking of using an 85 5.0 roller block that I have to stroke my engine to 347"....Someone has had to do this before me I bet, so correct me if I'm wrong, or please feel free to criticize or make suggestions. I appreciate it. thanks

Yes, people have done it before you. Many times. It's been covered on this forum before. Many times.

You will need a 67 oil pan for the front sump oil pump.The
Bell housing for the 5.0 will not work ,it will have to be an early bell housing

The '67 289 block casting should have the "later" 6-bolt 302/351W/351C bellhousing pattern.

It's true that the z-bar linkage will not work; there is no threaded boss on the block and the bolt-on adapter bracket in previous posts is necessary. Bear in mind that they are intended for stock cast bellhousings with a thick flange. I have one from NPD and had to make stand-offs to work with a scattershield.

The rotating assembly's balance factor will depend on what your stroker parts need. 289s came with a 280z-in factor and 5.0s used 50oz.

 

[boomer300]

Thanks for good feedback and advice. It's what I needed and really appreciated.

 

[barnett468]

Thanks for good feedback and advice. It's what I needed and really appreciated.

You need 28 oz damper and flywheel. I have never seen a 50 oz stroker.


I would run an orig style 3 finger pressure plate and not ever a diaphragm on an early car. Stock pressure is around 1600. An 1800 is a good match for most apps. At 2000 and above it can give the leg a work out especially in heavy traffic. summit sells them.


Use a series 100 street disc if you rarely flog it otherwise use a dual friction disc.


Your cooling system will need to be bigger than stock. Running an outlet on the rad on the drivers side with a long hose to the std right side water pump outlet will reduce temps.


Forged rotating assys are unnecessary for moderate builds.


get the crank and rods checked for size then get it balanced. do not buy one pre balanced.


i would run an ati damper but they are pricey. the pioneer/powerbond sfi is a decent budget choice.

1 1/2" headers are a bit smal. i would run 1 5/8 hedman elites. jba is very nice but very pricey.


Exactly what heads are you using?

 

[65ShelbyClone]

There are neutral-balance stroker kits too, hence my "depends on what the stroker parts need" wording.

If you're planning on using any kind of factory iron heads, then I wouldn't bother with a stroker at all. Stock '85 heads are not exactly desirable for most applications.

 

[boomer300]

I've been away from computer on business. Sorry, not ignoring anyone. I was running very lightly exhaust ported 351W heads with 1.96/1.6 valves and Comp Cam Magnum roller tip rockers on the 289. It was quick. I have a set of 92 Cobra GT40 heads with 2.02/1.58(?) valves that I can bolt on. I am looking for advice on any component, but that's what I have now. I've heard great things about AFR 185s, TFS twisted wedge heads, not as much feedback on Edelbrock RPMs. Saving money is nice as long as it turns out to not be a foolish part selection. If I were to buy heads right now, I'd buy the AFRs. Car is not driven at he drags, but more street and lonely country roads where it gets goosed often, but not a daily driver. I don't take it past 5800 rpms because I wanted it to stay together. But, my block is already .040 over, the crank's at 20/20 and it's time. A stroker will go in with a 5.0 block I have, or I'll find another 289. Since I have the 5.0 engine, I might as well use it. Hadn't thought about the clutch type, but see how that's important as power ramps up. Interesting on the radiator cross over hose. Car has a larger than stock aluminum rad that runs a little cold if anything. The 28 oz flywheel/damper is new to me as I guess I just thought that the basis 5.0 block required the 50 oz version. The components of the rotating assembly can balance either way? Again, thanks for real info that will make difference. I'm learning quite a bit here.

 

[boomer300]

Forgot to add I have ceramic coated Hedman long tube headers, H pipe into Magnaflow exhaust. I can't remember the diameter right now. The 351W heads are early style, 60.4 cc volume. D0OE-C. Not sure about pistons, but they will have to clear valves. I'll tell the maker of the stroker kit what heads and valves that I'll be using and they can help me make that call hopefully.

 

[tos]

I've never used the AFR's but have never heard anything bad about them but I've had a couple pairs of Edelbrock performer RPM heads and love them. As far as the clutch goes I would suggest a diaphragm over 3 finger. I've been using diaphragm clutches since my first mustang in the 70s and never had any issues. If you use a 3 finger that's anything above an oem version you'll hate it in traffic (at least your leg will), you'll have the possibility of bending your stock z-bar and that bracket horse showed you earlier would likely have to be strengthed not to mention the extra wear on the thin plastic bushing on your clutch pedal bracket. Diaphragm clutches take far less pressure to disengage and will perform just as good if not better than the antiquated 3 finger (3 finger = 3 fulcrums, diaphragm = 18 fulcrums) The one I am currently using is Centerforce dual friction and am very satisfied. Some think that because a 3 finger style is harder to push then its a stronger clutch but that's not the case, its all in the engineering.

 

[barnett468]

Forgot to add I have ceramic coated Hedman long tube headers, H pipe into Magnaflow exhaust. I can't remember the diameter right now. The 351W heads are early style, 60.4 cc volume. D0OE-C. Not sure about pistons, but they will have to clear valves. I'll tell the maker of the stroker kit what heads and valves that I'll be using and they can help me make that call hopefully.

heres my 3 cents.


A 3 finger pressure plate is a linear plate. If you use a diaphragm you should remove your clutch over center spring under the dash.


What determines the clamping force of the pressure plate on the disc is pressure. An 1800 lb diaphragm has exactly the same clamping force as an 1800 lb 3 finger plate.


don't buy a pressure plate unless you know for certain exactly what the clamping force is.


With a 357 stroker of any hp, you should use headers with at least 1 5/8 tubes

eddy rpm manifold or similar.

an comp cams xe274hr ground with 110 lsa will run very strong and have a moderately wicked idle and needs at least 3.50 gears for good street perf. 3.73 are better but your freeway speeds will be reduced. an xr284hr with 110 will rock but needs around 10.5 compression and 3.73 gears.

i would mill you block so the pistons are around .003 below the surface.

You cannot balance a stroker to 50 oz unless you have a ton of cash. They come in 28 or 0. 0 balance is unnecessary unless you are making massive hp.


All stroker pistons will fit all oversize valves unless you use twisted wedge heads, in which case you are best off with their special pistons.


Eddy rpm heads are decent but if you want over 400 hp or so, I would use the afr 185’s.


You should not use 2.02 valves in gt40 heads. The flow is shrouded and they have been shown to flow less than the same head with a smaller valve.

 

[woodsnake]

I will not recommend Trick Flow heads. I bought a pair several years ago, before I knew as much, as I know now. (Obviously)
In 2005, I got a pair that are good for the shorter lift cam:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51400002-m61/all

In 2012, I finally got around to getting the engine built and while the heads were at the machine shop, I learned that one of my heads came from the factory with a bent valve. So, even though the heads were still new in the box, the 90 day warranty was not honored. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at that. However. Trick Flow heads require a longer than stock push rod. This is nothing new if you are using performance camshaft. They don't tell you that, when they advertise "bolt on performance".
Also, they use a different shape for a guide plate, so if you need a new one, it has to be one of theirs.
The other aftermarket heads use all standard parts. ( To the best of my knowledge).
Purely for the sake of convenience, I would now rather have spent my money on an Edelbrock, or AFR head. Just less BS, for the cost....The hundred or so dollars, would have been money ahead for me today.