Engine Options (socal)

[SadbutTrue]

Its appearing like my 351w is done... i was having a lot of trouble keeping it running and it broke down a few months ago. Brand new oil was almost black, and found lots of shavings on my magnetic drain plug. Took the oil filter off and found a couple large shavings, and also tested them to be magnetic. I took it a shop and they were going to run a compression check; but when they got around to it they heard loud grinding noises and said there's something wrong with the rotating assembly.

The motor didn't have that many miles on it, but was a cheap autozone rebuild that my dad put cam/heads on. It was already .060 over so a rebuild of it isn't an option. Additionally it was a hodgepodge of 71-74 parts, so it had low compression... essentially I'm not that sad tos ee it go.

I do hope my Trick Flow heads are okay, however.

Anyway, I'm looking into my options for replacement engines...whether I go with a full rebuilt engine, or a long or short block from Coast High Performance or another socal engine shop. My dad and I have done a heads/cam swap before, though I would pay a little extra if I could get a shop to do it for us. I can't go absolutely nuts though, budget would be $4-5k max, and I'd have to be pretty convinced this is going to last if I'm going to spend that mcuh.

My questions:
1) What would one expect to spend on a stock or close-to-stock 69/70 351w, rebuilt?
2) If I was to look at later model roller-type motors, woudl this change the price much? Which engines are best (strength, compression ratio, etc)?
3) Any thoughts on the choice of a) buying a short block, building it with my Trick Flow heads etc versus b) buying a long block and simply selling the Trick Flow heads to offset some of the difference?
4) Any SoCal shop recommendations?

Thanks!
Ben

 

[rbohm]

since you have them, i say buy a good short block and drop your trick flow head on it. that is the quick and easy way to go.

 

[Falcon79]

Ben, are you looking to make big power? If not then call a local machine shop and see if they have a recommendation on a block. I believe the roller blocks are good for an additional 20HP over the flat tappet.

 

[woodsnake]

I would look at swapping the trick flow heads, for another aftermarket head. A roller block will give you a lot more options when it comes to camshaft selection.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Which trick flow heads? The right size ones with springs to match the cam will be great heads.
As for a 351 roller block, use the search on here for a long, old post on what to inspect to make sure it was not overheated and something cracked. (I think it was a second cam bearing area, but check.) As far as strength, all of them are supposed to be better than any stock 302. Unless you are going to go with a twin turbo, nitrous, or rev it too the moon, you are unlikely to broach the strength level of a stock 351 block.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Not to be argumentative, but the roller cam opens up options for quicker opening and closing profiles, reduces friction, but there are many many, many flat tappet grinds to choose from. And you do not have to add ZDP to your oil to not worry about wiping out a lone. (Most of the new oils exclude the zinc friction modifier for emission reasons.)

 

[SadbutTrue]

Power-wise... I'm looking for 400-450hp. Pretty tame for a 408. Don't want to go much beyond that because it'd be pushing the limits of... everything else.

As far as fresh engines... I was looking at the Blueprint 408 stroker long block (here: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bpf4084ct). Outside the heads seems like a pretty great deal, even includes a 3yr/50k warranty. Its a roller too, which should help it last. ANyone have any experience with them? I see some reviews online.. most don't see bad except for some people who expected invincible race motors and/or didn't go through the proper channels when they had an issue.

My current heads are Trick Flow twisted wedge. Don't have many details on them other than that... the ebay ad i bought them from is long since disappeared.

The current 351w actually had decent compression (one cylinder fairly low). It appears it threw a rod bearing based on the debris in the oil filter and the noise it was making. Is it ridiculous to think that changing in new bearings would heal it? How much of a job is that?

 

[SadbutTrue]

So I think i've narrowed it to two options...

The aforementioned Blueprint 408 for $4500, or a Coast High Performance 408 shortblock, with my heads. Both would be roller 408s; the CHP would probably have slightly higher quality parts in many places (they advertise Clevite bearings while BP doesn't, pistons are forged, and it'll make more power since I can get a little more compression, cam and my heads are better)

Blueprint will cost $4500, I'll be able to resell my Twisted Wedge heads at a later time and recoup $600-1000
Pros: Warranty is crazy, comes with more stuff (valve covers, pan,oil pump), slightly less assembly, might come out a few hundred cheaper, while i haven't seen any Ford testimonials I have seen their engineers post on several threads and they seem like they care and support their product
Cons: No name heads, won't make as much power, components aren't going to be quite as nice throughout, and most importantly its a newish company an there isn't much in terms of

Coast High Performance - short block for $2800, roller cam/lifter kit for $500, install for $700, re-use my heads
Pros - reputable, local engine builder who i can go complain to if things go bad; it'll make a little more power (more compression, uses my heads, little more cam), slightly better comonents in some areas (forged pistons, clevite bearings, etc)
Cons - only a 90 day warranty technically, though they say they'll cover their work if something goes bad after

Which way would you go? I'm sort of leaning towards Coast High Performance, but my dad wants Blueprint for simplicity. Keep going back and forth... someone show me the light! lol

 

[iskwezm]

My buddy has a CHP 347 and its been bullet proof except for a broken rocker stud. But in his 65 coupe is a low 12 second/high eleven combo. I went with a different local builder and ended up rebuilding it myself after they skipped a critical steps that cost me numerous head gaskets and time.

Never had any experience with Blueprint or know anybody with one.

 

[SadbutTrue]

The broken rocker stud... did that happen during the 90 day warranty (Assuming he got a long or short block, not a crate motor)? Did they support it at all? I guess its not that big a problem and it'd probably be easier to just fix himself... but I am curious if I have something go bad in 6 months how much they'll help me.

 

[SadbutTrue]

Decision made I think...

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/v...eprint-331-stroker-engine-21.html#post6412137

Cliffs... guy buys Blueprint 408 in roughly Jan 2013. Initially he loves it... makes more power than advertised, but at 2k miles he starts having all kinds of problems, most of them having to do with (apparently) under-designed valve springs, cheap stamped rockers and so forth. He goes through one engine, has broken five valve springs on a second, and in roughly 2 years has gotten 6 months of use out of his car/engine. Blueprint for their part is doing one of the better customer service efforts I've ever seen, consistently going beyond their warranty needs to make it right, but... damn. The thread starts out upbeat and turns comically bad really fast.

 

[iskwezm]

The broken rocker stud... did that happen during the 90 day warranty (Assuming he got a long or short block, not a crate motor)? Did they support it at all? I guess its not that big a problem and it'd probably be easier to just fix himself... but I am curious if I have something go bad in 6 months how much they'll help me.

It was a few years after he bought it and any passes at Irwindale. I end fixing people things after they from somewhere else. . I cant say how builders would handle it knowing your gonna be beating the s*** out of it because its fun. My engine builder(wont mention names) screwed me pretty good to the point that after 2 attempts I just built it myself.

 

[SadbutTrue]

not planning on too many passes at irwindale. i'm hoping that by documenting every step, working with them and generally being careful i'll get support down the road. fingers crossed.