List Basic Things To Know For Newb's

[Noobz347]

I'll agree with most all of this except #17... a junk yard motor will be more reliable than rebuilding your 302. I've noticed a long trend with the op being dead set against rebuilding engines. I've been down both roads. You never ever ever ever know what you are getting with a jy motor. EVER. While most noobs may not be familiar with foxes, they may be familiar with overhauls, and I've said it a hundred times, a monkey could learn to do it. When you rebuild a short block, you know it's tight, wont burn oil, and won't let go when you floor it. I've been doing this literally since 1986. My first car had five junkyard engines in it before I said screw it and built a good one. NOW, that being said, I will agree that if you are making changes the best thing to do with the stock top end is to throw it all away and go with explorer or better parts. Performance wise, the factory mustang top end stuff is really poor. The bottom end, however, is every bit as good as explorer.

This is pretty damned good but I'd like to add one portion that SHOULD make some others here nod in agreement:

Even if it's your first rebuild, unless something goes horrible wrong then the final motor is probably going to be as good as or better than a pro-rebuild for one simple reason. You're checking everything half a dozen times because it's your first rebuild and are probably going overboard on most fine details. Everything is torqued to spec (using actual torque wrenches and everything).

At least that's what it was like for me. I didn't know enough to it wrong and followed my rebuild instructions meticulously. I wore my buddies phone out (you remember those, they were cordless and worked pretty well over short distances with the antennae pulled to it's 3 foot maxi) calling him up when I wasn't sure about something.

I think that the only people that would balk on this specific portion of the topic are the ones that just cannot use tools. These individuals would be best off installing an uninspected JY motor. I've also tossed a motor or two into a car re quick because it had to be moved. I STILL don't know what's in my 89.

 

[2000xp8]

inFor me it's not only about the reliability. Time, simplicity and money also play a factor. With the right research I think many could do it. But the real question would be why? So you can say you did it? $500 and 1 phone call to the JY can have you back on the road in a weekend with an explorer engine. No ordering parts, no questioning your own work, no waiting weeks to finish.
You also need to factor in the position people are in. I have quite a few vehicles for 2 people, most people do not, some people need to get places, like work and just don't have the time to be researching and learning to build an engine. For some, it's a hobby AND transportation.

Now if you were going to build a 347 on a stand, I can see the point. I just don't see a value in a building a 302. I'm not against building engines, i'm against building 302's and 306's.

By suggesting that anyone that knows how to use tools should be able to do it, that's like saying nobody here should pay anyone do anything, period. Quite a few people here that did not build their shortblock, would you say they cannot use tools?

I just don't like building something so generic that you can buy cheap. If you are going to do it, instead build something worthwhile, like a stroker.

 

[Boosted92LX]

It doesn't get much more simple than rebuilding a 302. So simplicity? Meh. And cost? I think I had 600 bucks in my son's 302, not counting the cam I sprung for, so cost? Yeah there goes that theory. That leaves time, which is valid. But time equals money and an lrs short block is what now 1000? 1200?. Do the math..

It all boils down to what noobz said. If you can use tools, you can do it yourself. To answer the question of why was done in my previous post. It's not and never has been so you can say you did it yourself. It's so you have something reliable and worth owning, not a piece of crap junkyard motor.

 

[mikestang63]

THIS is why for most newbs I say buy a $300 explorer JY motor. This clown took months and several hundred dollars to "build" this stock 302 in his garage and I guarantee it lasted no more than 2 minutes. If you have some time to kill and want a good laugh, watch these beginning with #6.

 

[2000xp8]

It doesn't get much more simple than rebuilding a 302. So simplicity? Meh. And cost? I think I had 600 bucks in my son's 302, not counting the cam I sprung for, so cost? Yeah there goes that theory. That leaves time, which is valid. But time equals money and an lrs short block is what now 1000? 1200?. Do the math..

It all boils down to what noobz said. If you can use tools, you can do it yourself. To answer the question of why was done in my previous post. It's not and never has been so you can say you did it yourself. It's so you have something reliable and worth owning, not a piece of crap junkyard motor.

Let's not forget, the JY doesn't need the heads pulled, so no head gaskets or head bolts, you don't need to acquire or borrow any special tools or a stand either. Not everyone knows people or has access to the things needed nor do they have people at their disposal for instant advice.
The xp engine comes with parts on it to get you another 30-50rwhp if you so choose too. And if you have your own heads you can sell off the parts and nearly have a free engine.

Not sure why you think explorer engines are junk, they come from automatic trucks that shift earlier and weren't beat on. I've been around here a long time and haven't seen anyone complain of one that ran it as it without ever opening up. It comes from a jy, so of course there is risk, but the question is, which risk is worse, someone not detail orientated building the engine or the JY.

Just because you know how to build an engine doesn't mean someone that just bought a car and has never had a ratchet set should build one.
Guys that know what they are doing aren't going to look at this post for advice, so that point is moot.

Kinda ironic that someone that thinks everyone should build their own engine and knows what they are doing, goes and buys an On3 turbo kit wouldn't you say? Why didn't you build it yourself, just takes tools and time...

Bottom line, engine building is for some, but not for everyone and just because someone doesn't do it (which is the majority here) doesn't make them any less of a car enthusiast.
Building a shortblock is not something i'd suggest anyone start with as their first major project, half the people i know would be lucky to even get the head gaskets to seal correctly.

I can appreciate and respect people that build their own engines, but i don't hold it against people who don't.

The list is for noobs, not seasoned veterans.

 

[Boosted92LX]

LOL... I guess I could have just paid someone to do it and sat on the internet and gave advice with all the time I saved. But whatever.

 

[RangerJoe]

THIS is why for most newbs I say buy a $300 explorer JY motor. This clown took months and several hundred dollars to "build" this stock 302 in his garage and I guarantee it lasted no more than 2 minutes. If you have some time to kill and want a good laugh, watch these beginning with #6.

I'be seen that before. I don't knock the guy for not knowing, but I wouldn't be making a how to or documentary video if I was him.

Joe

 

[mikestang63]

I'be seen that before. I don't knock the guy for not knowing, but I wouldn't be making a how to or documentary video if I was him.

Joe

Joe, my point is- with the amount of money and time he spent on that motor, he could have jut pulled a JY explorer motor and been done in a weekend for 1/3 the price- and the motor would have run. He is the perfect example of a guy watching a few internet video's and thinking everyone can rebuild a motor in their garage with zero knowledge.

 

[Boosted92LX]

To be fair guys, everyone begins with zero experience. I did. We all do. But, the very nature of this hobby of ours is to take something and make it better. At what point do you stop and say "that's good enough"? How many times have I heard the saying a car is never finished? They never are, the improvements keep coming. IMHO, the same should come with our abilities. Building an engine for everyone? No.. but don't hammer it into the newcomers that it should be avoided! It's very doable with some study and planning. For heaven's sake the hobby is dying off bad enough as it is..

just my .02

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

There are too many different types of Mustang owners on this site and to generalize all them as being capable, knowledgeable and handy with tools and cars is foolish. I think anyone that buys a Fox Mustang should already have a good mechanical understanding of cars and know how to fix them themselves. However that is not the case and I wouldn't suggest to them that they should build their own short block. I would suggest they buy a warrantied crate motor and go from there. If limited on time a JY motor is an option but is only a band-aide for long term owners that don't have the funds to spring for better.

Some owners only know enough to change a flat tire and perform an oil change - don't build your own motor
Some can do more than this ^^^ but may DD the car and can't afford the down time it takes to study up and build their own motor
For others it's a hobby, you have the tools and time, and it's just a fun car and not a DD and want to learn to build it

Some people don't know a dang thing about anything and should step away from the vehicle and put the tools down.
for instance........
-I'm pretty sure that I've seen a post here on SN where a noob asked what the torque sequence is for a stock 4 lug Mustang wheel.
-On a youtube video a guy said that the engine oil capacity is dictated by how many liters the engine is, if it's a 4.3L engine it requires 4.3 qts of oil, a 2.3L engine requires 2.3 quarts of oil, etc

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Do not slam it with rock hard springs and expect it to handle better. Doing so will change the front end alignment and will require at least c/c plates and maybe a bump steer kit. It will also shake your kidney stones loose. A mild drop (like FRPP B springs) still looks better than stock and is more fun to drive.

 

[mikestang63]

Hence my post earlier about Steeda or H&R springs. They are progressive and have higher spring rate than the B spring so the ride is firm but not buckboard.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

I think your mis read my intention. I like the progressive B springs over the higher rate blue ones that came with my street scraping ride. Riding in a go cart that darts with every road rut stinks.

 

[2000xp8]

Ghetto lowering is never good. Foxbodys aren't Honda civics, slamming them with springs like sportlines does no good.
I'd also like to add, make sure to install new isolators when you do springs. I drove my car back to back without them and with them, and while they aren't a wonder fix to a bad ride, they do help, they also keep the car from being too low.

Boosted, the hobby is changing not dying. Engines are built from the factory so much better and stronger than they used to be. Head gaskets don't blow, they put up with 600hp+ and they last 200,000+ miles. Now is more about bolting on and tuning. It is what it is. You can't blame enthusiasts because the new gt500 makes 800rwhp hp with a pulley and tune without ever having a valve cover off.

As for everyone starts somewhere, you are right, but you have to crawl, then walk, then run. A newb building an engine is going straight to running. I know a page ago you said it's a common theme for me to say using an explorer engine, it is, when talking to people that at least appear to be inexperienced. I think you would be hard pressed to find anywhere I said it to someone that has been around here for a long time and know's what they are doing, those guys build strokers anyway, not 302's. It's not real hard to judge a persons skill level based on the questions they ask.
Could I be wrong sometimes? Of course, but i'd rather be wrong and tell someone not to build something, than be wrong and tell them to build something they are incapable of completing or getting right. Installing an engine, running it, finding out it's messed up is not only time consuming, but it's expensive to do twice.
I've yet to see anyone's explorer JY engine fail. But I've seen plenty ill advised home builds go wrong.

 

[srtthis]

I've yet to see anyone's explorer JY engine fail. But I've seen plenty ill advised home builds go wrong.

gimme one for a weekend... my solenoids are big enough i could melt a piston or split the block. im sure i got bigger jets around here somewhere lol

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

... my solenoids are big enough i could split your block

My new pick up line

 

[srtthis]

HAHAHA lemme know how it works for you