What To Expect From Comp Polymer Box Upper And Gt 40 To Switch To Holley Sytemax Or Tfs R Intake

[2000xp8]

They both need to go, the poly box was never really any good at anything and the c&l is garbage.
I wouldn't worry about the TB, i'd leave that as is.


I'm assuming your friend that got that number had a supercharged engine since it's stock long block, you can't compare and engine that is drawing air to one that is having it forced through it.

As for how much power? That's hard to guess, but it should surely be quicker in the quarter, I probably wouldn't be happy until that mph was closer to 120.
Back in the day all testing was done at the track when we didn't have dyno's. I'm almost willing to bet cars were faster back then.

 

[A5literMan]

If it was you and you had to choose either a new tb and maf or a new intake which would you do?

Is there a third option of all three? Lol. If it is just one choice I'd swap intakes first. If the car is running fine with the MAF and tb I'd stick with it if I could just pick 1 thing

 

[90lxwhite]

They both need to go, the poly box was never really any good at anything and the c&l is garbage.
I wouldn't worry about the TB, i'd leave that as is.


I'm assuming your friend that got that number had a supercharged engine since it's stock long block, you can't compare and engine that is drawing air to one that is having it forced through it.

As for how much power? That's hard to guess, but it should surely be quicker in the quarter, I probably wouldn't be happy until that mph was closer to 120.
Back in the day all testing was done at the track when we didn't have dyno's. I'm almost willing to bet cars were faster back then.

Ha yeah the friend is me and yeah forced induction.- less $ spent and bout the same power...
Cars were faster back when K&N claimed their drop in the box filter would gain 25 hp.

 

[fiveohlover]

Maybe i shouldn't do anything and just save up and do everything at once??

 

[90lxwhite]

Maybe i shouldn't do anything and just save up and do everything at once??

Maybe but I'd think it'd be 6 of one half dozen of the other in the end result. If ya did the intake now I doubt you'd need a tune to make it run but if you switched maf's maybe you would need one? So why not put the intake on then save for a new maf? So what's the problem w the c&l's again, the calibration? And why can't thst be fixed via tune?

 

[2000xp8]

I'd watch for good deals and buy when the price is right. If you went the rpmII route it probably won't be cheap. Not sure the value these days, but I got mine for $400 and that was cheap back a bunch of years.

90white, the c&l uses the stock sensor, in a c&l housing then swappable sampling tubes. It's not really a flowed or calibrated meter. At best it's a guessing.

Pro m, pro flo, pmas (all same company at this point), physically puts every meter on a flow bench, calibrates it and gives you your flow sheet.
Read up on mass air meters a little bit, then decide if you want a c&l controlling those things on your engine.

You don't fix things in a tune, you supplement to make things better. If you are fixing something, you screwed up somewhere. Besides you would probably need a flow bench, and since only a couple exist, it's unlikely.

 

[Noobz347]

If it was you and you had to choose either a new tb and maf or a new intake which would you do?

I'll start here. I skimmed the rest of the way through page 2 and 3 but this is a decent question:

I would do intake first. The intake in image that I saw is for a blown application is not much good for anything beyond that. Take the boost away, no velocity, straight running, lazy air. I'm not about to compound that issue by oversizing my only two inlet restrictions so I can slow it all down even further.

Once the intake is done, Mass Air Meter. Having a slightly undersized TB installed when I pull thing thing up for tune??? Yeah... That restriction is going to validate my low RPM resolution to that new air meter to a pretty decent degree. Anybody can tune WOT. Get all the part power tuning up front. The WOT tuning will take care of itself.

Now that air metering is rock solid, we can swap to any size throttle body that we want. Doesn't make a damned bit of difference to the tune because you flow more air to the meter then the EEc is gonn flow more gas to the motor.

Thank the gods for making our tuning strategies so simple to alter and not overly complicated to learn.

As far as meters go... I have a couple of C&Ls with the swappable tubes. I've gotten them here and there over the years. I salvage the sensors use them for ash trays. Not only are the tubes unreliable, the signal coming from the meter is inconsistent even when tubes are not adjusted.

This is a MASS AIR SYSTEM. It relies strangely enough, very heavily on a MASS AIR METER. Perhaps we should get good one. One that's perfect for our application and doesn't cut low speed resolution in half by sticking it in a removable housing and trying to vary the air around it through a straw.

Juss' sayin'

 

[fiveohlover]

Geez everybody must realy hate my c&l meter. It just came with the car lol works fine so far and tuner didnt say anything bad about it

 

[A5literMan]

Thanks for clarifying Noobz!

 

[Noobz347]

I've gotten them to work before but it's not something that I would click an order button to have. Sometimes you use what you got.


The resolution thing I mentioned earlier though, will eventually bite you in the butt.

When I have the option to use a 30 point transfer function over a 0 to 5 volt range but half of that range is taken up by airflow that the meter will never see well....

Then I'm down to 15 points and all of my meter feeds to the EEC are now in 2 to 4 volt range (anything under 2 is too inconsistent to read and anything over 4 is more air than sensor will ever see because of the sample tube that's in the way). So now I'm down 9 points.

When does cause an issue? Only when above idle and below WOT. Otherwise it's fine!

 

[90lxwhite]

I'll start here. I skimmed the rest of the way through page 2 and 3 but this is a decent question:

I would do intake first. The intake in image that I saw is for a blown application is not much good for anything beyond that. Take the boost away, no velocity, straight running, lazy air. I'm not about to compound that issue by oversizing my only two inlet restrictions so I can slow it all down even further.

Once the intake is done, Mass Air Meter. Having a slightly undersized TB installed when I pull thing thing up for tune??? Yeah... That restriction is going to validate my low RPM resolution to that new air meter to a pretty decent degree. Anybody can tune WOT. Get all the part power tuning up front. The WOT tuning will take care of itself.

Now that air metering is rock solid, we can swap to any size throttle body that we want. Doesn't make a damned bit of difference to the tune because you flow more air to the meter then the EEc is gonn flow more gas to the motor.

Thank the gods for making our tuning strategies so simple to alter and not overly complicated to learn.

As far as meters go... I have a couple of C&Ls with the swappable tubes. I've gotten them here and there over the years. I salvage the sensors use them for ash trays. Not only are the tubes unreliable, the signal coming from the meter is inconsistent even when tubes are not adjusted.

This is a MASS AIR SYSTEM. It relies strangely enough, very heavily on a MASS AIR METER. Perhaps we should get good one. One that's perfect for our application and doesn't cut low speed resolution in half by sticking it in a removable housing and trying to vary the air around it through a straw.

Juss' sayin'

I've gotten them to work before but it's not something that I would click an order button to have. Sometimes you use what you got.


The resolution thing I mentioned earlier though, will eventually bite you in the butt.

When I have the option to use a 30 point transfer function over a 0 to 5 volt range but half of that range is taken up by airflow that the meter will never see well....

Then I'm down to 15 points and all of my meter feeds to the EEC are now in 2 to 4 volt range (anything under 2 is too inconsistent to read and anything over 4 is more air than sensor will ever see because of the sample tube that's in the way). So now I'm down 9 points.

When does cause an issue? Only when above idle and below WOT. Otherwise it's fine!

Jeez Louise, most of that was above my head. So a perfectly matched maf will provide for a better daily duty driving type situation vs a not so perfect match and under wot it doesn't matter as much because the tune overrides the maf per se? Also, could you run this by me one more time, "Once the intake is done, Mass Air Meter. Having a slightly undersized TB installed when I pull thing thing up for tune??? Yeah... That restriction is going to validate my low RPM resolution to that new air meter to a pretty decent degree. Anybody can tune WOT. Get all the part power tuning up front. The WOT tuning will take care of itself."
Back to the c&l's: So it's the sample tube getting in the way that makes them so cruddy? Or more so that it doesn't read voltage (or whatever is does) as accurately as others? A side from the sample tube; how would they compare to an oem reman? Pretend it's an apples to apples comparison in diameter and injector size.
Which brings me to my final question. If anybody can tune any maf at wot then why does the maf's calibration or lack there of even matter if one is looking for peak horsepower?

 

[90lxwhite]

Thanks for clarifying Noobz!

Clear as mudd

 

[7991LXnSHO]

I feel sorry for the original poster. He asks a valid question about intakes and is now worried about the rest of the intake system. Even if the info is right, this thread detour has probably been overwhelming and less helpful than intended.

@fiveohlover

Please change the intake first and ASAP. It will broaden the power band and make the car more fun to drive too.

After that, you can consider a different meter and if you want a bigger TB too. The main thing is the parts you have are less of a restriction than the tiny port stock ones. Changing the MAF and TB you have when you have the wrong intake will not be as big of benefit as it might be later.

If your BBK intake pipe (hopefully CAI) has the filter in the fender, not sucking in hot engine bay air, I doubt the NA stroker is maxing it out. Now if it has the filter in the hot engine bay, go back to the stock CAI system or splurge on the big power pipe someone mentioned.

But do the intake first and do not forget the extra big vac cap underneath the upper manifold.

 

[89oem]

Read it again Mike, its clear, a quality MAF provides an Accurate air flow to the computer, the computer uses this to tell the injectors how much fuel to release into the cylinder, Via the stock or "tuned" A/F table. the throttle body just flows metered air So the A/F tables wouldnt change...
better Air flow data, so more accurate A/F tables so better fuel injector response so better engine/throttle response... Thats why you got a tune and people told you to get a better MAF etc, Thanks @Noobz it was really helpful

 

[Noobz347]

I feel sorry for the original poster. He asks a valid question about intakes and is now worried about the rest of the intake system. Even if the info is right, this thread detour has probably been overwhelming and less helpful than intended.

@fiveohlover

Please change the intake first and ASAP. It will broaden the power band and make the car more fun to drive too.

After that, you can consider a different meter and if you want a bigger TB too. The main thing is the parts you have are less of a restriction than the tiny port stock ones. Changing the MAF and TB you have when you have the wrong intake will not be as big of benefit as it might be later.

If your BBK intake pipe (hopefully CAI) has the filter in the fender, not sucking in hot engine bay air, I doubt the NA stroker is maxing it out. Now if it has the filter in the hot engine bay, go back to the stock CAI system or splurge on the big power pipe someone mentioned.

But do the intake first and do not forget the extra big vac cap underneath the upper manifold.

This is what happens on a real FORUM versus two strangers passing by each other in a crowd on FB.

Questions become real live discussions.

 

[A5literMan]

I feel sorry for the original poster. He asks a valid question about intakes and is now worried about the rest of the intake system. Even if the info is right, this thread detour has probably been overwhelming and less helpful than intended.

@fiveohlover

Please change the intake first and ASAP. It will broaden the power band and make the car more fun to drive too.

After that, you can consider a different meter and if you want a bigger TB too. The main thing is the parts you have are less of a restriction than the tiny port stock ones. Changing the MAF and TB you have when you have the wrong intake will not be as big of benefit as it might be later.

If your BBK intake pipe (hopefully CAI) has the filter in the fender, not sucking in hot engine bay air, I doubt the NA stroker is maxing it out. Now if it has the filter in the hot engine bay, go back to the stock CAI system or splurge on the big power pipe someone mentioned.

But do the intake first and do not forget the extra big vac cap underneath the upper manifold.

Agreed. I was trying to point that out and probably was a bit "ambitious" in my description/advise.
#1- change the intake. To me it would be worth it.
#2- later on change the MAF/tb/ and get a retune. This will tie everything together and you will see the maximum potential of the combo.

Hopefully this simplifies the explanation and is beneficial to the op and any other reader.

 

[2000xp8]

Some people only have online friends an acquaintances for support.
He's looking for more power and probably a better ET.
So if we didn't say something, who was going to?

It's nothing to "worry" about or lose sleep over. But it really is something that can help meet his goals.

While it went slightly off the intake topic, if it were me, i'd want to know.

 

[fiveohlover]

I feel sorry for the original poster. He asks a valid question about intakes and is now worried about the rest of the intake system. Even if the info is right, this thread detour has probably been overwhelming and less helpful than intended.

@fiveohlover

Please change the intake first and ASAP. It will broaden the power band and make the car more fun to drive too.

After that, you can consider a different meter and if you want a bigger TB too. The main thing is the parts you have are less of a restriction than the tiny port stock ones. Changing the MAF and TB you have when you have the wrong intake will not be as big of benefit as it might be later.

If your BBK intake pipe (hopefully CAI) has the filter in the fender, not sucking in hot engine bay air, I doubt the NA stroker is maxing it out. Now if it has the filter in the hot engine bay, go back to the stock CAI system or splurge on the big power pipe someone mentioned.

But do the intake first and do not forget the extra big vac cap underneath the upper manifold.

thanks for the good right up, yes i have a c&l intake elbow with the small filter in the fenderwell. I will definetly change the intake soon and hold off on the tune and the MAF for later. I am leaning toword the holley and hope to get it ported, but if i find a good deal on a tfs r or a rpm 2 i will most likely go that rout.. What did you mean by the big vac cap?

 

[90lxwhite]

Read it again Mike, its clear, a quality MAF provides an Accurate air flow to the computer, the computer uses this to tell the injectors how much fuel to release into the cylinder, Via the stock or "tuned" A/F table. the throttle body just flows metered air So the A/F tables wouldnt change...
better Air flow data, so more accurate A/F tables so better fuel injector response so better engine/throttle response... Thats why you got a tune and people told you to get a better MAF etc, Thanks @Noobz it was really helpful

Got it thanks.