Valve Clatter; No Rocker To Pushrod Contact

Jun 10, 2014
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Hey guys. So I recently did a head swap. Really basic, just Ditched the E7s for some GT40Ps with crane beehive springs. I am running an E cam, and after I got it all back together, I developed a really nasty noise in the valve train. Sounded like a broken rocker. So I pulled the rocker covers and upper intake, and didn't find a broken rocker, but the rear pushrod on cylinder #4 (exhaust valve?) was not touching the rocker and there was a little play in it. I pulled the pushrod expecting it to be bent, but to my surprise it's straight. Rolls pretty easily on a flat surface. I suspect a collapsed lifter, just coming to you guys for second opinions before I pull the lower intake again (I hate sealing lowers )
Now I have checked my pushrod length and they seem to be just right. My rockers are non adjustable pedestal mounts, so I believe preload is not an issue. any other possibilities or is my issue a failed lifter?

If so, why would it have gone bad, and should I go ahead and replace them all at once, or just the one?
 
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Honestly, who gives a crap WHY it went bad. just replace them.

Also, if you're still running the stock pushrods, you might as well pitch them in the trash and buy some better ones. The stock pushrods will pretzel up pretty bad when they decide to let go.
 
Sounds like a collapsed lifter to me.. I would replace the entire set rather than just one. The other lifters are likely in similar condition to the failed one, do it once and replace them all imho
 
Got it. And I've been looking at 2 sets of lifters; the comp cams units and the FRPP units. I'm thinking the FRPPs will be fine for my E cam, but if the comps will be much better I'll do that. Or if anyone had another suggestion let me know.
 
I've read a few negative things about the FRPP lifters. Well just one common thing-there seems to be a problem with 1-2 lifters being soft after install. But if you do run into that problem you can order an individual lifter(and disassemble/reassemble..again:()
 
What are the advantages of a short travel race lifter adder?

And E cam because it works well with the GT40P heads, and it passes CA smog. Car is a 5 speed with 4.10 gears

I'm not here to bash your combo- just trying to save you some heartache. The E cam is a dog below 3k rpm and the 110 LSA may give you some vacuum problems at idle. If you are adamant about running that cam, I would recommend advancing it at least 4-6 degrees to get back some of the low end.

IMO there are much better cams out there- TFS1, XE270, Crane 2031, even the stock with 1.7 rockers. Regardless of the cam, upgrade the springs on the heads or you will have binding if not worse.

Just my 2 cents. take it or not.
 
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Did you use shims under your rocker arms ? ..because sometimes you will need to use shims to get the right preload on the lifters. Every engine/combo is different ..some will need shims and some don't.
 
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I was planning to measure for correct pushrod length before I order new lifters so I can order the new lifters and pushrods together. Is that misguided? Should I order the new lifters, then measure for correct pushrod geometry because the lifters affect that?
 
Honestly, who gives a crap WHY it went bad. just replace them.

Also, if you're still running the stock pushrods, you might as well pitch them in the trash and buy some better ones. The stock pushrods will pretzel up pretty bad when they decide to let go.
Why on earth would you not want to know WHY it went bad ?!?

Thats so key - I'm assuming that the OP reused the lifters that were in before the head swap, and they were fine prior to the swap ?? So that means either a) Something in the swap caused the lifter to go bad - replacing them would only bandaid the problem
b) The lifter isn't bad, and there's some other issue like:
- Heads were not machined evenly, so pushrods appear to be differnt lengths
- Valve springs were not installed evenly, have different shimming, etc so rockers have to sit at different heights, or pedestal needs to be filed down a bit
- Head gasket was not placed evenly, or something otherwise interfering causing head to not sit perfectly flush

For what it's worth, if you DO find it's the lifter (seriously, how do they collapse, I think this is really rare), and need to replace them, for my money I'd get short travel lifters anyday. You'll gain upper end RPM and probably low end torque too. Lifter pump is proven in 5.0s so why not help about a bit and get some short travels.
 
Oh also, how long did you run the motor for ??
Did you just idle it, or actually rev it a bit ? After a head swap if the lifters have sat for along time, they will need to be pumped up. So you can hook up a special bit to a power drill and turn the oil pump through the distributor shaft, or just do what I did and fire it up, rev it a little, and within a couple mins they got pumped back up and the terrible noise dissipated.
 
It was seriously an awful noise. Not just a little lifter tick; sounded like a broken rocker. LOUD.
Initially the noise wasn't there, I drove the car 7 or 8 miles, no major ticking problems, but I had a serious lack of power, couldn't get the t stat housing to seal, electrical issues, exhaust leak, etc. car sat for a few weeks while I fixed those issues, then I got it running good. I let it idle maybe 3 min to warm up, then drove it around the block (I'll admit I drove it kind of hard around the block) and immediately the noise started. Like I said this was not just a little tick, it was loud and obnoxious. So much so that it was pretty much all I could hear even with flow master 40s and a catless h pipe. I drove the car about 5 miles to see if it would go away, and it only got worse. I parked the car thinking I had a broken rocker or bent rod or something, and when I pulled the valve covers, all I found was the rocker on #4 exhaust valve not touching the pushrod. Maybe .200" play, so a substantial bit. I took the pushrod and stuck it into the lifter and with very little pressure, it dropped down probably another 1/4 inch. None of the other lifters did that; all pretty much had enough stiffness that they didn't give at all when I pushed relatively firmly. I know this is rare, but I honestly don't know what else it would be.

I shimmed the valve springs correctly, if I remember, each exhaust side needed .020 shims, and each intake side needed .010 shims. Though I could be wrong, I just remember it was uniform on every cylinder. head was resurfaced at a professional machine shop, looked to be very little material taken off, though I did not cc the chambers, I used ARP head studs, and strongly doubt the head gasket is the issue but who knows.

I am in the midst of checking for correct pushrod length right now, maybe that is the problem, but so far it looks like stock length is leaving wear marks directly in the middle of the valve stem, so I have a suspicion that my geometry is in fact correct.

Will short travel lifters affect my pushrod length? I would rather not have to get adjustable rockers if I don't have to.
 
So I believe I've found my problem. Broken rocker pedestal. Now why would these break and where can I buy just a new set of pedestals?
 

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