I Dont Get Custom Cam Idea
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Hey. I can agree with that. My SSC made 440 to the tires with the stock cam. Drive-ability was perfect.To add to that - the stock 5.0 HO cam is great and should rarely be messed with
liljoe07
5 Year Member
As would I. I think far too many on this site are unable to see that there's a difference between an OTS cam and a "poorly selected" OTS cam.
It's like the guy who goes out and buys an X303 because it's the raunchiest, most aggressive camshaft that Ford sells and stuffs it into a stock short block, only to find out his car now runs like crap and get's beat all the time? Instead of properly researching all of the offerings by different manufacturers available out there (and there are literally hundreds of them folks), picking one best suited to his needs like he should have, he went with the "bigger is better" approach and ended up with a dud.
Instead of learning the craft and putting the time and effort into understand camshaft dynamics and how they work in relation to the rest of his engine components, in order to correct his mistake....he's sour on pre selected camshaft profiles altogether and decides that the only way to remedy his mistake, would be to go the "custom route".
Quite frankly, I think the term is being thrown around out of laziness more than anything else. It's much easier on ones pride to say "I went with a custom grind, because off the shelf cams are no good", than it is to say "I really just don't know what I'm doing when it comes to picking a camshaft and am gonna let someone else do it for me". After all, the term "custom cam" just rolls right off the tongue when naming off the laundry list of ones parts to your buddies on the internet, right? If nothing else, it makes your car sound far more brag worthy and makes you feel and sound like you've really got something special under the hood.
I guess what I'm saying is that custom cams have their place in more radical, off the wall, or high horsepower combinations....but I'll bet 90% of the owners of cars on the forum probably wont notice a lick of difference between a properly selected OTS cam and a fancy custom one. IMO, many are just going to vote for the one they're told is custom regardless of how it performs, simply out of recognition of the term.
You think you could pick a cam as good as the cam designers could?
Yeah,....leave it to me to rain on the benefits of the custom cam.
I maintain that unless you have an "extreme case" is in the example listed by @84Ttop , the "custom cam" already exists and is just waiting on your order.
There is no magic combo left that hasn't been properly targeted by any cam mfg as long as all of the engine parameters fall into what anybody could buy to build that engine "off the shelf". How much extra voodoo can some cam tech guy put into a grind for a 347 w/ 205 heads, streetable compression, a 5 speed, w/ 3.73's, and a small wheezer force feeding air into the thing that hasn't been done already?
I'll bet all of the cam MFG's have a bell that the tech that gets the "custom call" gets to ring ala Boiler room.
I maintain that unless you have an "extreme case" is in the example listed by @84Ttop , the "custom cam" already exists and is just waiting on your order.
There is no magic combo left that hasn't been properly targeted by any cam mfg as long as all of the engine parameters fall into what anybody could buy to build that engine "off the shelf". How much extra voodoo can some cam tech guy put into a grind for a 347 w/ 205 heads, streetable compression, a 5 speed, w/ 3.73's, and a small wheezer force feeding air into the thing that hasn't been done already?
I'll bet all of the cam MFG's have a bell that the tech that gets the "custom call" gets to ring ala Boiler room.
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I've got a whole bag of Voodoo
I sprinkle it in the valve covers and let it soak through the whole motor... It keeps things going in there. Way better than Marvel Mystery Oil could hope to every be 
I've got a whole bag of Voodoo
I don't doubt that you do.
I'm quite certain I didn't say that anywhere?
What I'm saying is that there are enough off the shelf grinds available for the oodles of "cookie cutter combos" out there, that for most, employing the skills of a custom cam designer isn't at all necessary, or beneficial.
The "custom cam" option seem to be the B303 of the new generation. It's trendy and popular to have one and nobody takes you seriously until you do.
Let me clarify a bit, i'm well aware of the E cam specs, I know they are around, I was using the E as an example of a cam that has a part number and the specs are known.
I'll bet there is a custom cam out there with the E specs but you wouldn't have to pay the custom price, because you know the E has the same specs.
Not so simple with other spec'd cams. Custom doesn't necessarily mean one off. Cam guys use them all the time, but they keep the part numbers to themselves so the make some money off their knowledge (nothing wrong with that).
I've had customs at $400 and customs at $300. Where is comes from matters for price.
I understand what everyone is saying about proper cam selection vs "custom cam" advise. I also believe that most people do not know how to select said "proper cam". I know that my personal combo (205 11r heads on a stock shortblock) was a semi unique situation. Yes I could have personally selected a catalogue profile and had descent results. I even talked with representatives from Bullet cams,Comp cams,and Lunati cams. I cross referenced recommendations with offered profiles. I eventually went with a one off design by Brian Friedentag(Freezy) cut by Bullet cams.
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
Sure you can. Take an engine, run an OTS cam. Take the same engine, run the custom cam. Compare dyno #'s.
liljoe07
5 Year Member
I'm quite certain I didn't say that anywhere?
What I'm saying is that there are enough off the shelf grinds available for the oodles of "cookie cutter combos" out there, that for most, employing the skills of a custom cam designer isn't at all necessary, or beneficial.
The "custom cam" option seem to be the B303 of the new generation. It's trendy and popular to have one and nobody takes you seriously until you do.
I wasn't saying you were. I don't think I could. Majority of the price difference is paying for experience and knowledge. Much like the people that pay an HVAC company to diagnose an issue. There isn't much money to be made on the core itself since most of one man cam guys don't buy them in bulk. Most guys get overwhelmed by all the cam choices available, so they choose to custom route to get the best chance of not picking a turd of a cam. Even guys like Buddy Rawls will tell you that he often times picks OTS cams if they fit the bill. But I would guess you would still pay more since he spent the time to go over the combo and decide that it was the best choice for you. So for most guys its not just to fit in with the custom crowd, but to ensure they get good results for the money they have spent.
When I was going to build my 5.0 One of the well respected Cam guru's told me to buy an OTS that was going to be as good as a custom grind.
In the end knowing how it all works and good math skills is all you need, however just like anything else sometimes its better to let the pros decide for you.
In the end knowing how it all works and good math skills is all you need, however just like anything else sometimes its better to let the pros decide for you.
But where does the OTS cam come from? Is it selected by the same guy who is also going to cut the one-off cam or is it Joe Schmo shade tree mechanic?
I think he is proposing that the best choice ots be used, then a cam designer try to one up it with something better.
I like the idea, I think it would make the cam designers really step up and shown their worth. I went custom because everyone cried it, and I was afraid that if I didn't, I would be leaving power on the table. My experience (customer service) with my custom cam designer was not worth the $$$ in my opinion. But I will say that the cam preforms well and the specs are a little odd compared to any ots i've seen.
I could have easily chosen a cam based on manufacturer's descrpitions, but i wouldn't truly know how it would perform until after I installed it. I am putting a lot of faith into the designer to say that it couldn't get any better.
Joe
One BIG benefit of a well selected OTS design is it has most likely been run before. That means, especially on a flat tappet design, there is a better chance of the lobes not going flat with your motor as the test pig. On a roller cam, they have already run it to get a better idea of what springs to run without valve bounce.
Sometimes a custom cam is about lobe profile instead of lift/duration numbers. You can have two different cams with the same lift/duration #'s but they perform completely differently because of lobe profiles.
My machinist came up with a custom cam for my race motor. Comp Cams did the grind. And truth be told, they took a particular intake lobe profile that they had on record and used a particular exhaust profile that was "in stock" and matched them up to be the cam that was right for my application. They also set the intake centerline and LSA for my app. Was there a part # in the system for my cam, nope, but all of the other information was readily available to "build" my camshaft.
My machinist came up with a custom cam for my race motor. Comp Cams did the grind. And truth be told, they took a particular intake lobe profile that they had on record and used a particular exhaust profile that was "in stock" and matched them up to be the cam that was right for my application. They also set the intake centerline and LSA for my app. Was there a part # in the system for my cam, nope, but all of the other information was readily available to "build" my camshaft.
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
I would hope the prospective engine builder would do some research- heck even call one of the tech lines at Summit, Crane, etc. or jump on a message board. Even if he used one fhte tried and true cams say a TFS, Anderson or Crane OTS cam and then get the custom cam and see what difference it would make.. We're talking about your average build= nothing exotic- like a stock bottom 302 with a new TFS, AFR, or Edelbrock top end. The same buiild thats been done 10000 times. Even a 347 with a decent set of heads.
I know my 331 with AFR 185's and systemax intake has been done 1000's of times. I'm sure the cam grinder spent all of 10 minutes picking out my $400+ cam.
Joe
