Head Gasket Trouble - Pull Engine

[stang89bidges]

That's what I thought... All the research I did and the book I bought says oil slinger bolts onto Crankshaft and also my book has pic of round eccentric for manual fuel pump. The way they talked about it too. Must be talking about early model 302's...

 

[mikestang63]

Looking good. Fyi, if you are staying file injected and running an electric pump, the fuel eccentric on the cam gear is not needed. That is for running a mechanical pump.

Joe

This is a fuel pump eccentric.

Edit: I see you caught it already.

 

[stang89bidges]

So does that eccentric also sling oil or iS that where a separate "crankshaft" slinger comes into the picture?

 

[Chuckman]

the piece you have on it now is just the factory oil slinger, ford put it in as extra insurance that the timing set would get properly lubed, i left mine off, a lot of people do.

the piece that mike posted for a mechanical fuel pump on a carbed car (mounts on timing cover), there may have been a few in the '86 or so era as ford used up stock (same as why the early '89s have an 85mph speedo vs the later 140mph) but your car wont need it.

 

[stang89bidges]

Ok so now I know why my car has the dam 85mph speedo. Sux. Good to know. You guys are full of it, knowledge that is

 

[stang89bidges]

New question. My pickup tube is only .05 in from bottom of pan. My book says to make sure its within a half inch or .5 in. Is there such a thing as too close? Do I need to bend it again?

 

[stang89bidges]

Forgot to add the gasket, with my 1 piece oild pan gasket its now .15-.16 clearance. I just found this on canton website:

Canton Racing Products - Oil Pan Accessories Tech

I guess its back to the blow torch...

 

[mikestang63]

Take a piece of modeling clay and cut a piece about 3/8" thick. Lay it ontop of your pickup screen. . put down your pan gasket. lay your pan ontop and put some light pressure on the pan. Remove the pan and see measure the thickness of the clay. It helps to spray the clay with pam so it doesnt stick.

 

[stang89bidges]

Modifying the pickup.

After a couple times of heating and bending the pickup I got it close enough. I'm only nervous about the angle at this point but the lowest part is the screen so I'm leaving it.






Canton website says between .312-.375 in. The more I bend it the worse the angle gets so this will have to do.

 

[RangerJoe]

This is a fuel pump eccentric.

Edit: I see you caught it already.

I stand corrected...

Joe

 

[Noobz347]

@stang89bidges

I saw the email that you send to the help desk. Couple things... I'm not sure what specific images you are talking about since there was no link. If you're worried that deleting the images from your hosted site will ruin the thread then my response is that I don't think that it will.

You can try it though: Test with one image. Stangnet makes it's own copies for linked images and shouldn't be affected if you need to move or delete them from your host.

Anyway,

If this is not what you're referring to then hit up your moderators for help with what you need done. If they don't have the means to assist then they'll hit me up for additional options.

@madmike1157 @FastDriver

 

[stang89bidges]

Thanks I will give it a try then

 

[stang89bidges]

I have a problem. Got my heads back(resurfaced and valve job done) and i'm checking piston to valve(P2V) clearance. One side ended up within spec of .080 intake and 1.0 exhaust. The other side is an issue. I'm coming up between .01 and .03 P2V clearance on intake valves.

I'm using the clay method, and i'm using the original hydraulic lifters but I don't think this matters at this point, with a solid lifter the results would be worse if the clay is depressing the friggin lifter. I'm at a loss as what to do next...

This engine builder I found local says I should not be having a problem. He took .020 off both heads. The heads have been milled before however but I don't know how much. I'm guessing another .020 if I remember right so that gives a total of .040. Engine builder thinks I am doing something wrong because he is dead set on thinking I should be fine.

He also mentioned that if he took .020 off the heads, and I am measuring a lowest point of .010 clearance, then I would have had P2V clearance issues before he started. That would make the heads come in at .030 before I started.

Regardless of what anyone says, I started out with no gasket, and the valves were coming into contact with pistons I could feel as I turned over the motor. When I grabbed my old gasket that is when I came up with the clearance numbers above. I am using all stock, cam, pistons, valves, springs, heads. I put a new timing chain on as you can see a picture of that in my previous posts. I know I have that installed correctly at straight up.

 

[liljoe07]

You still need to used a solid lifter. If the lifter compresses any, it will make it seem like it has more clearance. So your first side might be tighter than you think. Its best to take all the variables that can alter the readings out of the picture. It only takes a few minutes to convert a lifter to a solid. Even with the timing set installed dot to dot, its good to verify the parts you are using were made correctly. Lots of things can stack up from the crank to the valves as there are a lot of parts that can be off.

 

[stang89bidges]

Exactly, if its tighter then i'm definitely screwed... Its not going to do me any good to use a solid lifter at this point right? I'm not even close with the hydr lifters!! The question now is have the heads been milled too much or could it be something else?

My good side had intakes at around .080 and exhaust around 1.0-1.1 so doesn't that mean that even if my new timing chain is off then adjusting it a little wouldn't help? Also, if my heads were milled lets say .060 total then I still shouldn't see that low of clearance right? If they start out at .080 from factory then I should at least see .020 after .060 was milled...

 

[RangerJoe]

I have to think something was not done correctly. I don't see how there could be such a huge difference. Try a different t piston on the bank that is coming up short.

Joe

 

[stang89bidges]

I did 3 of them, they are all much shorter than other side. When I had heads checked first time a year ago the shop only did 1 head and I don't know how much he took off unfortunately. Then they were warped a hair the second time I had heads checked about 6 months ago so both got milked this time. Now on my 3rd blown head gasket failure they were both done .020 and I think it's possible that the 1 head that was miled 3 times could be .060 total but I really don't know.

I'm afraid I may just have to bite the bullet and get new heads. I dunno what else to do.

 

[stang89bidges]

This turned out to be another perfect example of what not to do. I really hope some newbie like myself out there catches this post and learns from my mistakes.

I did a ton of research, but it still didn't help. I trusted a particular video from a reputable TV show and thought, hey, I can do this. And I did. I did it very well too I am sure of that. But I wasn't supposed to do this on my particular heads.

Couple of specific lessons to learn from this post:
1. If porting your stock E7TE heads do not touch the CC(combustion chambers). And do very light work in the other areas as you are not a master of this craft and that is what it takes to do a good job.
2. Blueprint your work. Everything you have done(like milling your heads), make sure you document the procedure and don't leave out any details. So when you come back and rebuild your engine on your own you know what your starting with and will help you make your decisions.

If I knew ahead of time that milling my heads could be an issue I would have never ported them. Maybe polished them up but I would have never touched the combustion chamber.

What I have learned from this process so far is a lot. Unfortunately I have learned the hard way and ruined a set of heads. I ruined them a long time ago when I let the first machine shop mill only 1 head instead of both of them. Then of course I didn't blueprint that work. Second time I didn't blueprint the work either. 3rd time was a charm. Took too much off the heads and boom, I have 2 totally different sets of heads with a brand new 3 angle valve job, nice even deck surfaces, refreshed valves, new seals, and are simply a very expensive set of paper weights.

 

[RangerJoe]

I hate to hear this man, keep your head up. I don't know if it is a possible solution, but what about using two different head gaskets? Possibly the thickest one you can get On the shorter side.

In reality , a new set of heads is probably the best solution, but just trying to think outside of the box. Maybe even try swapping heads from bank to bank and see.

Good luck with it.

Joe

 

[stang89bidges]

thanks man. can't switch the heads because when i ported the CC's(and this is the part of the porting that I did NOT do good on...) I went further on one head than the other. so when i presented this to the engine builder the only thing he could do was mill the heads until the gasket wasn't peering over my scribe and cut. Then when he laid the gaskets over the heads, he noticed that we had to switch the heads because the gaskets are a hair different when flipped over. And of course it was the wrong way so he switched my ports/plugs for the smog crap allowing me to swap sides of the heads and keep the gaskets working best on the bad head.

See when I ported them, I did one head that night, then I posted my work that night on this thread. Immediately I got replies from you guys on here telling me NO! Don't touch the CC's! So when I did the second head I didn't want them to be too different so I deshrouded them a little but not all the way up to the scribe line of gasket.

I should have quit right there and just started looking for new heads but I was too determined to make them work... But then as time passed and I started coming to the end of the rebuild, it started keeping me up at night thinking about those dam heads. Thinking 1, I started this venture because I was blowing head gaskets, and 2, I screwed them up and I will see detonation on my protruding gaskets and end up blowing them again!! I just knew I was screwed I just couldn't admit it.

Bottom line, I really appreciate the information you all have given me over the past month or so. I am on a time crunch with this build and that is just a bad thing when its your first rebuild. I should have listened more on the porting advice but hey, I'm going to end up getting new heads out of this experience so stay tuned because it ain't over!