Electrical 91 Lx - Factory Tachometer Issues

So somewhere between the wire loom and the tachometer I'm not seeing the resistance to ground? You believe that this would cause my engine stumble? I can see the stumble on the tach when it happens.
Wrong conclusion
1.) Go back and read the code 18 definition.
2.) Then look and the engine diagram I posted with the code 18 definition.

A low resistance path to ground would turn off the spark advance, resulting in poor engine performance. It might even shut down the ignition circuit.
The yellow/Lt green wire is part of the SPOUT circuit which helps the computer determine the amount of spark advance needed for best operation.

The tach stumbles in response to what the engine is doing.

Some help on how the ignition system works...

How the TFI ignition works in 86-93 model Mustangs:

Tools needed: DVM, noid light, safety pin.

Theory of operation:
The TFI ignition in 86-93 Mustangs has 4 main components: the ignition switch, the coil, the TFI module and the PIP sensor inside the distributor.

The ignition switch gets power from the two yellow wires that are supplied power by a fuse link located in the wiring harness that connects to the starter solenoid.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif


I.) The coil is mounted on the driver’s side strut tower on most EFI Mustangs. It gets power from a red/green wire and a brown/pink wire from the ignition switch. That wire from the ignition switch feeds a 20 gauge blue fuse link that connects to the red/green wire. The fuse link protects the wiring and the ignition switch, since the fuse link for the two yellow power supply wires has a much higher current rating. Without the smaller fuse link protecting the smaller wiring used in the ignition circuit, a short there would cause the red/green wire to overheat and burn up.

II.) The TFI module is mounted on the side of the distributor and supplies the ground for the coil. Every automotive power supply circuit uses the ground as the return path to carry power back to the negative side of the battery. The TFI switches the tan/yellow wire coming from the coil to ground. It gets power from the red/green wire when the ignition switch is in the Run position. The red/lt blue wire supplies a signal to turn on more power (dwell time) when the engine is cranking. The increased dwell can cause excessive current draw if the red/blue wire remains energized when the ignition switch is in the Run position. The trigger signal comes from the PIP sensor when cranking and the computer when the engine is running. The SPOUT jumper plug enables computer controlled spark advance. When the SPOUT is removed, spark advance is locked at the setting determined by the mechanical position of the distributor.

III.) The PIP sensor is in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. It is a Hall effect magnetic sensor that senses a change in the magnetic field when one of the slots in the shutter wheel uncovers the sensor. Then it supplies a pulse that triggers the TFI module to provide a ground to the ignition coil. A bad PIP will often set code 14 in the computer and cause hot start problems. Replacing the PIP sensor requires removal of the distributor and pressing the gear off the distributor shaft to expose the sensor. For most people, a remanufactured distributor ($55-$75) is the solution, since they may not have access to a press.

IV.) Troubleshooting the ignition system – no spark or weak spark. All the tests are done with the ignition switch in the Run position unless specified otherwise. A safety pin may be used to probe the wiring connectors from the back side.
1.) Check for 12 volts at the yellow wires on the ignition switch. No 12 volts and the fuse link near the starter solenoid has open circuited.
2.) Check for 12 volts on the red/green and brown/pink wires coming out of the ignition switch. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.
3.) Check for 12 volts at the ignition coil. No 12 volts and the blue 20 gauge fuse link has open circuited.
4.) Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the TFI module. No 12 volts and you have wiring problems.
5.) Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid (looks like it is stuck on a screw). This is a safety measure to keep the engine from turning while you are making measurements. Have a helper turn the ignition switch to Start and look for 12 volts on the red/lt blue wire on the TFI module. No 12 volts and you will have starting problems, but push starting the car will work OK. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch. Be sure to reconnect the red/blue wire to the starter when you finish.
6.) Check the red/blue wire to make sure that it has less than 8 volts when the ignition switch is in the Run position.
7.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the PIP pulse. The computer uses the PIP signal to trigger the fuel injectors. The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the PIP is working. No flash from the noid light and the PIP is suspect. To confirm the PIP is being the source of the non flashing noid light, look for 12 volts on the red injector wiring. Good 12 volts and no flashing noid light means the PIP has failed.
8.) Remove the SPOUT plug from the harness and try to start the engine. If it starts, replace the PIP. This is a common no start condition when the engine is hot.
9.) The TFI module is a go/no go item when you have a no spark/weak spark condition on a cold engine. It either works or it doesn’t.
The TFI failure mode on a running car is usually a high speed miss on a warm engine. Many auto parts stores will test your TFI module for free. Bring along a hair dryer to get it hot while testing it and run several test cycles, since it often gets weak when it heats up.

The coil is somewhat more difficult to pinpoint as a problem. A good coil will make a nice fat blue spark 3/8”-1/2” long. The problem is that one person’s perception of a fat blue spark looks like may not be accurate enough to spot a weak coil. The coil is cheap enough ($13-$16) that having a known good working spare might be a good idea.

diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2Birds
fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif


TFI_5.0_comparison.gif


TFIModuletroubleshooting.jpg


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif
 
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jrichker,

I have looked at the diagrams/instructions and tried to figure why I have no ground circuit from the SPOUT to the car with the TFI and ECU disconnected. All of the body grounds are intact and clean inside the car and under the hood. Truth be told I don't know what I'm looking for or how to diagnose the issue. Yeah, there's no other way to say it but I'm not an automotive electrician.
 
Can you tell me where in the vehicle or wire loom that the SPOUT wiring picks up 100k or more ohms of resistance to ground. I still have zero resistance between the TFI connector to ground and the ECU pin #36 to ground.

I am trying to zero in on where the issue is but I'm not getting anywhere fast.
 
Can you tell me where in the vehicle or wire loom that the SPOUT wiring picks up 100k or more ohms of resistance to ground. I still have zero resistance between the TFI connector to ground and the ECU pin #36 to ground.

I am trying to zero in on where the issue is but I'm not getting anywhere fast.
Set the DVM for low ohms and short the probe tips of the DVM together; I doubt you will get zero Ohms. I will guess that it reads more like .3-.5 ohm.
 
Still here begging for help. Why would there be 100k or more resistance in the SPOUT circuit wiring to ground? Where does this resistance originate from?
What sort of reading do you get when you set the meter scale to 1 Meg ohm?

Remember not to touch the meter tips when making measurements. If you do, you will get inaccurate reading.
 
The DVOM I have doesn't have a 1Meg setting. It has a 200k and then a 2Meg setting. At 2Meg ohms my meter doesn't read anything touching the 2 leads together. The only reading I get is on the 0 to 200 Ohms scale which is .8 (point 8) ohm when touching the 2 leads together while I'm not touching the leads with my fingers.
 
The DVOM I have doesn't have a 1Meg setting. It has a 200k and then a 2Meg setting. At 2Meg ohms my meter doesn't read anything touching the 2 leads together. The only reading I get is on the 0 to 200 Ohms scale which is .8 (point 8) ohm when touching the 2 leads together while I'm not touching the leads with my fingers.

What does the 2 Meg Ohm scale read when you use it to do the test of the SPOUT wiring?
 
Yellow/lt green wire at the disconnected TFI module with the spout connected is ZERO ohms to ground across all scales on my meter. Pin #36 at the disconnected ECU plug is ZERO ohms to ground (SPOUT still connected) across all scales of my meter. The meter appears to be in good working order as I have recently checked some resistances across a spare TFI module. I'm showing resistance through the leads on my meter. Just FYI, my meter is capable of reading resistance up to 20 million ohms.
 
Yellow/lt green wire at the disconnected TFI module with the spout connected is ZERO ohms to ground across all scales on my meter. Pin #36 at the disconnected ECU plug is ZERO ohms to ground (SPOUT still connected) across all scales of my meter. The meter appears to be in good working order as I have recently checked some resistances across a spare TFI module. I'm showing resistance through the leads on my meter. Just FYI, my meter is capable of reading resistance up to 20 million ohms.

You need to have both the TFI and the computer disconnected to correctly make the tests.

If you use the low 200 ohm range and you get a 0 (zero) ohms reading and not .8-.2 Ohms, then there is something wrong. Either there is stray voltage from somewhere or you have a problem with the meter.

To eliminate the stray voltage as being the problem, set the meter to low voltage DC and redo the readings. If you don't see any voltage, keep turning the meter scale down until you get the lowest range. If there is still no reading, then there is no stray voltage to cause problems.

Please include the make and model of your meter in your next post.
 
Ok, through 20VDC all the way to down to 200milliVDC I got ZERO voltage at the TFI connector (yellow/lt green wire) to a body ground/negative battery terminal. I guess I will go and get another meter and try this all over again. I do show 12.2 VDC across the battery posts with the current meter.
 
Ok, with new meter in hand I retested the spoken tests of earlier posts.

#1 Yellow/lt green wire at (Disconnected) TFI connector to ground still shows ZERO ohms (ECU disconnected).
#2 Brown/yellow wire at (DIsconnected) TFI connector to pin #4 on the (Disconnected) ECU connector shows 21.7K ohms.
#3 Yellow/lt green wire at (Disconnected) TFI connector to pin #36 on the (Disconnected) ECU connector shows .3 (point 3) Ohm. This reading just happens to mimic the resistance across the new meter leads when touched together.

So nothing really changed except for the fact that I have a new multimeter. :)

I did check resistance through the neg. battery post to ground and got 1.5 Ohms. I checked resistance from the distributor lock down bolt to the neg. battery post as well as the body ground and got the same 1.5 Ohms.
 
Where should the ignition key be during these tests? In the KOEO position or just off? It has been in the off position since we started troubleshooting.

The SPOUT wiring connects only to the TFI module and pin 36 on the computer. If you have an aftermarket tach or other instrument, it may have a stray connection to the SPOUT wiring

On the drawing below, the red line shows the SPOUT wiring and what it connects to on the factory stock car.
.
tfi-spout wiring.gif


When testing resistance in circuits, the power to the circuit should always be Off.

To take a different approach to your problem, use a test light. Make sure that the TFI connector and the computer connector are both disconnected. One side the test light connects to the battery. The other side to the yellow /lt. green wire on the TFI connector. If the light turns on, you have short to ground in the wiring
 
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Forgot to mention that I tested the SPOUT wiring to ground for voltage on the miiliamps scale of the new meter and came up with ZERO VDC. If no voltage is present with a meter then a noid light isn't going to make a difference, right?