Too Much Clutch Pedal Travel

[Repostyle]

Specs:

90 5.0
New parts:
Flywheel
Maximum motorsports single hook quadrant
Ram stage 3 clutch w/bearrings
Tri-ax short throw

Donor was an 86 5.0
Parts used:
Pedals
Cable
Cross member
T-5 (after fresh rebuild)

The problem:
Since the aod t-5 swap, the clutch pedal sits about an inch higher than the brake. It is partially disengaged when it's fully up. It needs to be buried in the carpet to fully disengage. It takes the entire swing and then some basically. I can live with the pedal height but I can't live with that much travel. It's drivable but my clutch is going to have a very short life if I continue like it is, and it won't do a burnout since it slips under heavy accel (can't have that right?). It also slips when you accel in 4th and 5th gears like to pass on the freeway. This is not my DD.

Did they send me the wrong quadrant? Should I have gotten a quad for an 86? Is it a different shape? I don't think it has a bent fork and i also don't think a bent fork would cause the problem, could it?

Those are the only two things I can think of that could possibly be the problem.

The factory quad in the 86 had a bad adjustor and wouldn't stay locked so it got canned.

Everything else seems perfect, the pedal is firm but not stiff, no binding or noises when it's pressed.

Thanks for your time.

PS its great to have a garage and be able to play with my baby again. It's been in storage for quite a few years.

 

[B.erazo712]

I had this problem, fixed it with adjusting the clutch cable.

 

[jrichker]

If you use a single hook quadrant, you need a longer that stock cable and a firewall adjuster to make your setup work.

The single hook quadrant requires either an adjustable cable (Ford Motorsports) or a longer than stock cable (MM is a good choice) and a firewall adjuster.


Clutch adjustment
Do the clutch adjustment first before considering any other problems. With the stock plastic quadrant and cable, pull up on the clutch pedal until it comes upward toward you. It will make a ratcheting sound as the self adjuster works. To release to tension of the stock quadrant, use a screwdriver to lift the ratchet paw up and out of engagement with the quadrant teeth.

Binding clutch cable
A binding clutch cable will make the clutch very stiff. If the cable is misrouted or has gotten too close to the exhaust, it will definitely bind. The binding common to adjustable cables is often due to misplacement of the adjusting nuts on the fork end of the cable. This will also cause the cable to wear and fray. Both nuts should be on the back side of the fork so that the domed nut faces the fork and the other nut serves as jam or locknut to the domed nut.

Clutch pedal adjustment
Clutch pedal adjustment with aftermarket quadrant and cable: I like to have the clutch completely disengaged and still have about 1.5” travel left before the pedal hits the floor. This means that I have only about 1” of free play at the top before the pedal starts to disengage the clutch. Keep in mind that these figures are all approximate. When properly adjusted, there will not be any slack in the clutch cable. You will have 4-15 lbs preload on the clutch cable.

Adjustable clutch cable tips:
Loosening the cable adjustment nut (throwout bearing arm moves to the rear of the car) moves the disengagement point towards the floor.

Tightening the cable adjustment nut (throwout bearing arm moves to the front of the car) moves the disengagement point towards the top of the pedal.

Firewall adjuster tips
Turning the firewall adjuster IN makes the engagement point closer to the floor since it loosens the cable. You have to push the pedal to the floor to disengage the clutch. Too loose a cable and the clutch won't completely disengage and shifting will be difficult. Gears will grind and you may have difficulty getting the transmission in first gear when stopped.

Turning the firewall adjuster OUT makes the engagement point farther from the floor since it tightens the cable. You push a short distance to disengage the clutch. Too tight a cable will cause clutch slippage.

This list below is I my choice and I know that it works well.

Aftermarket solutions to the problem:
The quadrant needs to be replaced if you use any type of aftermarket cable or adjuster. My preference is a Ford Racing quadrant, adjustable cable and Steeda firewall adjuster. The adjustable Ford Racing cable is just as good as the stock OEM cable. It allows a greater range of adjustment than a stock cable with a aftermarket quadrant and firewall adjuster. Combined with the Steeda adjuster, it lets you set the initial cable preload and then fine tune the clutch engagement point to your liking without getting under the car.

Using a stock OEM cable, firewall adjuster and a single hook quadrant may result in not having any free pedal travel before the clutch starts to disengage. I found this out the hard way.

See Summit Racing - High Performance Car and Truck Parts l 800-230-3030 for the following parts.

Ford Racing M-7553-B302 - Ford Racing V-8 Mustang Adjustable Clutch Linkage Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com Cable and quadrant assembly $90

The Ford Racing Adjustable cable is available as a separate part:
Clutch Cable, Adjustable, Ford, Mercury, 5.0L, Kit

[url=http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SDA-555-7021/]Steeda Autosports 555-7021 - Steeda Autosports Firewall Cable Adjusters - Overview - SummitRacing.com Steeda firewall adjuster. $40

http://www.steeda.com/images/watermarked/1/detailed/7/ford-racing-mustang-v8-and-v6-topside-clutch-adjuster-79-04-161-m-7554-a.jpg

Fix for the quadrant end of the cable popping out of the quadrant when installing a replacement cable courtesy of Grabbin' Asphalt

Help for those who have replaced the clutch assembly and are still having problems with adjustment:
The next step doesn't make much sense it you already have the transmission installed, but just for sake of discussion, here it is:
The throwout bearing sits in the clutch fork arm with the wave springs pressing on the rear flange of the throwout bearing.

Major differences between the distance between the flywheel surface and the clutch fingers may require tinkering with the clutch fork pivot ball. Stack your old pressure plate, clutch disc and flywheel up like they were when installed in the car. Tighten down all the pressure plate bolts and measure the distance between the clutch fingertips and the flywheel face.
Too much thickness will cause the clutch fork arm to sit too far back to get the clutch cable on the quadrant. It may even sit against the rear or the bell housing hole for the clutch fork arm. In that case, reduce the pivot ball height.
Too little thickness will cause the clutch fork arm to sit too far forward and bottom out against the front side of the bell housing hole for the clutch fork arm.. This will prevent the clutch from fully disengaging.
In other words, the clutch fork arm should sit positioned midway or a little towards the rear in the bell housing hole for the clutch fork arm when the cable is properly tensioned.[/url]

 

[Repostyle]

I have a firewall adjuster, forgot to mention that. But it's not a problem with where it disengages. The problem is that it takes the entire pedal travel to disengage and when the pedal is fully up it's still not fully engaged yet.

 

[jrichker]

Screw the firewall adjuster in, that will change the engagement point. If you have it all the way in, you need a two or three hook quadrant or an adjustable cable.

The cable is supposed to have a good preload on it for it to work properly.

 

[Repostyle]

Not sure you guys are catching what the problem is. It's not an adjustment problem because if I change the fwa and move it out, I won't have the press it so hard into the floor to disengage but it won't go up far enough to reengage to drive it, same but flipped for the opposite. If I go in more with the fwa, it wont disengage enough to put it in gear but will fully engage when the pedal is up.

It's the fact that either I have a bungee cord for a shift cable or the quad is the wrong shape to pull enough cable. It's not about moving the shift point at the pedal, more about the fact that it should only take about 2-3 inches of pedal travel to complete the job, and your solutions would only change where that 2-3 inches ends up in the full swing. mine uses the entire pedal swing ( what ever it is 6-8 inches ) and then some.

 

[jrichker]

1.) Did you incorrectly assemble the clutch fork and throwout bearing? - See the drawing I posted above.
2.) Is the socket for the clutch fork properly seated on the ball stud?

 

[Repostyle]

It just hit me what could cause it... If some of the bolts broke that hold the clutch to the flywheel. That might cause it. Could be just enough movement to give me this headache lol

 

[Repostyle]

No and yes jr. Think I should change/adjust the ball stud?

 

[jrichker]

No and yes jr. Think I should change/adjust the ball stud?

Unfortunately, you will have to take everything apart to determine if it needs adjustment.

 

[TXStangs]

Repostyle, did you ever find out your issue? I have the same problem and I cannot resolve it with basic clutch cable adjustments. I have a SVE double hook quadrant, firewall adjuster, and adjustable cable (thread/nut at clutch fork). I've adjusted both directions multiple times to find that the car either will not fully disengage clutch when depressed fully (grinds getting into gears) OR clutch will slip at higher RPMs/loads. Basically, the full clutch pedal/cable travel isn't sufficient to have full clutch engagement and disengagement...

In order to get full disengagement (and ability to get in gears, i have to preload the adjustable cable (and throwout bearing) significantly, e.g. 1/2 inch or more threading at the clutch fork adjuster past the point of initial throwout bearing preload. As mentioned, this allows shifting, but then causes clutch slippage at high RPM/load.

The clutch is a Ram HD "88794HD". Less than 1000 miles on it. Car is '93 coupe, moderately modified - probably around 350hp. Tranny is T5. Stock flywheel (resurfaced before clutch install), stock clutch fork, replaced the throwout bearing during install...

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Jereme

 

[General karthief]

You brought this back from the dead, thats ok, for help with your clutch problem hit this link: http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=6957073 from what I have gathered from reading about clutch changes around here apparently using the adjustable cable and a firewall adjuster does not work too well, best thing to do is get a non adjustable cable, use the firewall adjuster to get the peddle right. You already have an aftermarket quadrant so your good there, let us know how it works out for ya.

 

[TXStangs]

You brought this back from the dead, thats ok, for help with your clutch problem hit this link: http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=6957073 from what I have gathered from reading about clutch changes around here apparently using the adjustable cable and a firewall adjuster does not work too well, best thing to do is get a non adjustable cable, use the firewall adjuster to get the peddle right. You already have an aftermarket quadrant so your good there, let us know how it works out for ya.

Thanks, Karthief. A non adjustable cable won’t solve this particular issue. I’ve got plenty of adjustability toward both directions as noted by the post. But unfortunately I can’t find a sweet spot where the cable is lightly preloaded, clutch disengaged when pedal is on the floor at full travel, and the clutch doesn’t slip at high load. I’m at a loss so planning to pull the tranny soon to investigate. Thanks.

 

[Rt jam]

Sounds like Repo never resolved or didn't update. Anyways TXStangs, same as Repo adjustment is either direction will not help. Tighter and it will preload the clutch more and slip more. Loosen and it will not disengage the clutch, loosen more and it will totally not disengage the clutch.

If you way overtighten the cable. Will the clutch release? You can confirm this by rear wheels off the ground, in gear, pedal down, wheels not turning. A proper set up can release the pedal almost half way up before the wheels turn.

Either your pressure plate is broken or the solution is more travel. This is a ratio problem which may be the quadrant size or the fork length.