Hate to say it... but this is the issue.
A properly setup suspension is the absolute key. I've setup more than a few stick cars that are 300 rwhp or less that go like they are on glue with a radial. We've had a 13 second car on the bumper before
1/4 Mile Gain With Slicks?
- Thread starter OneWheelPeel
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A properly setup suspension is the absolute key. I've setup more than a few stick cars that are 300 rwhp or less that go like they are on glue with a radial. We've had a 13 second car on the bumper before
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Are you serious?? I've always wondered what kinda torque it took to pull the wheels...Hate to say it... but this is the issue.
A properly setup suspension is the absolute key. I've setup more than a few stick cars that are 300 rwhp or less that go like they are on glue with a radial. We've had a 13 second car on the bumper before
less than you'd think if the suspension is right. a bolt-on fox can pop the fronts if the instant center is moved to the right place (and further if its in the wrong spot, like that pic of 84ttop's car).
that being said, a bias-ply is much more forgiving on the launch, as the "sweet spot" for suspension adjustment (and clutch shock, since we're talking manuals here) is larger. a dr is much more efficient going down the track though, and if you can get it to hook is you're better bet (much easier to with an automatic).
The picture above of my hoagie was a "whoops"... we weren't expecting the new motor to make 38 lbs of boost. That is on a 275 drag radial though
And exactly what @Chuckman said, if the instant center is in the right spot it becomes more of a matter of leverage than anything else. There are a few good threads on yellowbullet that get into serious details on the matter in the stock suspension forum.
Good. I'm glad this conversation is playing out between others, and I appreciate the backup from the Drag Radial guys.
@cleanLX I really don't want to argue it. Drag Radials have advantages and so do slicks. I think the guys in here debating the issue all know what they are. So, run what you like.
Cool that you've been 103 on a stock TB. I've been 118 with a stock cam, but I'd still advise changing the cam when you change the rest of the combo, just like I'd advise changing the TB when you change your intake to one with a 70mm inlet. I prefer to address the entire intake tract and then tune it for the extra air flow. On a limited budget, I also like paying for permanent items instead of wear items, like tires... just me. Anyway, the OP wants to run 12s. That's easy! Either tire will get him there. He needs to address whatever is going on with his motor. Swap to the GT40 intake, get the timing and fuel right... done! 12s first time out...
@cleanLX I really don't want to argue it. Drag Radials have advantages and so do slicks. I think the guys in here debating the issue all know what they are. So, run what you like.
Cool that you've been 103 on a stock TB. I've been 118 with a stock cam, but I'd still advise changing the cam when you change the rest of the combo, just like I'd advise changing the TB when you change your intake to one with a 70mm inlet. I prefer to address the entire intake tract and then tune it for the extra air flow. On a limited budget, I also like paying for permanent items instead of wear items, like tires... just me. Anyway, the OP wants to run 12s. That's easy! Either tire will get him there. He needs to address whatever is going on with his motor. Swap to the GT40 intake, get the timing and fuel right... done! 12s first time out...
Also on Yellow Bullet are many discussions of drag radial vs slick, which there-in detail the woes of stick cars and the fact that a track needs the proper prep for a drag radial to hook... stick or auto.
For the average Joe going to the local track with a near stock suspension and street friendly clutch on a test and tune night (not a drag radial event)... if anyone here is honest, the right choice is a slick.
We can all agree that if you have the time/money to spend dialing in the perfect suspension (double adjustable coilovers are typically part of the receipt here) and launch tune (electronics limiting power out of the hole, adjustable clutches etc...), and then are able to make the adjustments at the track after a few test hits to get the car dialed for that track, that night, then sure, a drag radial is a great item.
Another thing to note is that when the launch is not perfect on a drag radial the tire is unable to recover like a slick. Spin a drag radial and start pedaling to get it back, tenths are lost, aborted run... spin a slick out of the hole, stay in the carpet with the gas and thousands are lost... a slick will recover.
Guys that can get it done on a drag radial have bragging rights when they get it all just right.
And they do just that.
Guys on slicks simply go about their business, because there is not nearly as much to "get right" at the performance level that OP is at.
Ever wonder why there are drag radial "only" classes of racing... and DOT only classes of racing.... but, guys on slicks don't discriminate against the drag radial or DOT guys running in open events?
I think this DR vs Slick debate has gone away from advising the OP of what is likely to work with what he's got, into a fanboy hoisting of the DR... keep in mind all the DR guys are also saying "get the suspension right"... which will also involve getting the clutch right, or swapping in an auto... OP could bolt a set of slicks on and not worry about much other than a decent set of rear shocks and tire pressure.
For the average Joe going to the local track with a near stock suspension and street friendly clutch on a test and tune night (not a drag radial event)... if anyone here is honest, the right choice is a slick.
We can all agree that if you have the time/money to spend dialing in the perfect suspension (double adjustable coilovers are typically part of the receipt here) and launch tune (electronics limiting power out of the hole, adjustable clutches etc...), and then are able to make the adjustments at the track after a few test hits to get the car dialed for that track, that night, then sure, a drag radial is a great item.
Another thing to note is that when the launch is not perfect on a drag radial the tire is unable to recover like a slick. Spin a drag radial and start pedaling to get it back, tenths are lost, aborted run... spin a slick out of the hole, stay in the carpet with the gas and thousands are lost... a slick will recover.
Guys that can get it done on a drag radial have bragging rights when they get it all just right.
And they do just that.
Guys on slicks simply go about their business, because there is not nearly as much to "get right" at the performance level that OP is at.
Ever wonder why there are drag radial "only" classes of racing... and DOT only classes of racing.... but, guys on slicks don't discriminate against the drag radial or DOT guys running in open events?
I think this DR vs Slick debate has gone away from advising the OP of what is likely to work with what he's got, into a fanboy hoisting of the DR... keep in mind all the DR guys are also saying "get the suspension right"... which will also involve getting the clutch right, or swapping in an auto... OP could bolt a set of slicks on and not worry about much other than a decent set of rear shocks and tire pressure.
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Nor do I, I'm out... took me a while to type, you posted before I could get my thoughts out and hit reply
Agreed, needs to address mph/motor, then tire will get him there.
I'm going to be completely honest here... I can't think of a time where slicks are appropriate, especially for a street car and given the proven performance of radials. While radial prep and some high dollar shocks on my UltraStreet car is required to go 1.1x 60' times on a 275 it was hardly required to go 1.20 60' in True Street trim on the same tire and single adjustable QA1 garbage. I can also disagree to a point with the recovery of a radial, sure if it obliterates the tires off the hit you're likely done but I have quite a bit of video hazing the tires out and getting the car down the track, likewise it's been pedaled at 300' out and still rode the ring gear up a good bit. @TOOLOW91 and @srtthis can pesonally attest to this!
To the thought of slick guys being faster that radials? I remember John Kolivas destroying the SSO record in NMRA a few years back on a radial (the rest of the class was on 28.10.5 slicks...) and the NMRA ultimately banning radials as deeming them a competitive advantage?! There have also recently been a number of Outlaw 10.5 racers that have made the switch to radials and I would bet that you see more with the release of the PRO 315 from M/T. Radial vs. World results would argue the point you've tried to make here with 7 cars making 3 second 1/8th mile passes in the last 2 years.
Long story short, slicks are and will continue to be a band aid for putting in the work to get a car to go down the track. Especially at the OP's level
You and me both. Just bought a new set of wheels and I am fixing to buy some new LCA, then I am letting someone who knows more than I do work on setting up the suspension.
Joe
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Pics of wheels ??
15X3.75 up front with MT Sportman skinnies, 15x8 in the rear with 27X10.5 ET streets.
I will eventually pick up a set of 15x10's and deligate the 15X8's to wearing some 555rs full time. This car sees maybe 1000 miles a year, so I think the skinnies will become it's normal shoes.
Joe
Weight reduction bro......lolHood is missing... just in case you didn't already notice
Sorry I had too'
I have a new best mph of 101 after the intake swap. Et is still slow though. The track was really cold today and I couldnt hook up at all.
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