I've Decided To Build A 351/400

[90sickfox]

Hey man was reading through the thread and thought I'd give my .02. I have an AJE k member and its been awesome for about 5 or 6 years. It was in my drag car set up..and then driven in a daily driver for 3 years ( winters and all ) and then now in my 331 street car. I am surprised how well its held up. Hasn't rusted or bent from numerous pot holes, hole shots, and cheek clenching freeway on ramp and off ramp escapades. Lol. I can say it makes working on the car so much easier. LT header clearance is no problem...and it can be used with stock control arms and springs or coil overs. If you're not planning to autocross then the AJE is great. It also comes with motor mount plates and bushings. Mine has held up to some serious abuse. Also, had no issues installing it. My 7 quart pan has no issues. Some k members change the geometry and the orientation of the front wheels. Pushing them further forward or lowering the center of gravity. . which means you can have tire clearance issues or bump steer issues if not set up properly (meaning more parts to buy ) less than 300 and you can be done and still better than stock. Won't have to worry about mounts or cutting fender edges or having to buy control arms. This thing has been under a 10 sec nitrous car, a 347 Vert., and its going under my 331 turbo build....same bolts....same powder coat...looks just as good as when I bought it.... Just my .02

 

[A5literMan]

I wouldn't run solid motor mounts on a street car. To much vibration from what I've read. I don't have personal experience with them. I bought energy suspension kit for both mm and trans.

 

[from6to8]

Hey man was reading through the thread and thought I'd give my .02. I have an AJE k member and its been awesome for about 5 or 6 years. It was in my drag car set up..and then driven in a daily driver for 3 years ( winters and all ) and then now in my 331 street car. I am surprised how well its held up. Hasn't rusted or bent from numerous pot holes, hole shots, and cheek clenching freeway on ramp and off ramp escapades. Lol. I can say it makes working on the car so much easier. LT header clearance is no problem...and it can be used with stock control arms and springs or coil overs. If you're not planning to autocross then the AJE is great. It also comes with motor mount plates and bushings. Mine has held up to some serious abuse. Also, had no issues installing it. My 7 quart pan has no issues. Some k members change the geometry and the orientation of the front wheels. Pushing them further forward or lowering the center of gravity. . which means you can have tire clearance issues or bump steer issues if not set up properly (meaning more parts to buy ) less than 300 and you can be done and still better than stock. Won't have to worry about mounts or cutting fender edges or having to buy control arms. This thing has been under a 10 sec nitrous car, a 347 Vert., and its going under my 331 turbo build....same bolts....same powder coat...looks just as good as when I bought it.... Just my .02

Thanks for the info man.
few questions. First, are you saying that with a stock k member it would make working on the car harder than having the aftermarket member on? Just wondering if it will be beneficial for me to have an aftermarket one

 

[from6to8]

I wouldn't run solid motor mounts on a street car. To much vibration from what I've read. I don't have personal experience with them. I bought energy suspension kit for both mm and trans.

what engine do you have?
I was under the impression that with a certain amount of cubes it was a must to run solid motor mounts at least.

 

[TOOLOW91]

what engine do you have?
I was under the impression that with a certain amount of cubes it was a must to run solid motor mounts at least.

363cubic inches here. just shy of 600 at the tire which is around 650 at the flywheel. running regular poly motor mounts.

 

[TOOLOW91]

Yeah I want to do it once and do it right and not kick myself later so I want the most convenience, or convenience rather where it's not going to cost an arm and a leg.
Is there absolutely No having to dent the header or floor possibly with an aftermarket K member lol?

and when you say easier for clearance do you mean clearance getting the LT's bolted up/putting on?

is your car lowered and if so do you have issues when it rains and O2's getting wet? Scraping issues?

Easier to pull headers if needed. Easier to do a starter. My 02s nor headers have touched the ground and my front tires sit flush with my front fenders to give you an idea of how low my car is . 02s get wet no matter what thats a non issue

 

[from6to8]

363cubic inches here. just shy of 600 at the tire which is around 650 at the flywheel. running regular poly motor mounts.

well I don't know what my boy was referring to as to having to run solid mounts with his 408 then.

are you running a poly trans mount too?

 

[from6to8]

Easier to pull headers if needed. Easier to do a starter. My 02s nor headers have touched the ground and my front tires sit flush with my front fenders to give you an idea of how low my car is . 02s get wet no matter what thats a non issue

ok cool.
now for your opinion on getting the TFS BOX R to clear if I decide to go with it? It will be that or the performer rpm 2. I've mostly read run certain motor mount that allow for the motor to sit lower, and also something else. Forgot exactly what.

 

[TOOLOW91]

well I don't know what my boy was referring to as to having to run solid mounts with his 408 then.

are you running a poly trans mount too?

Stock replacement rubber transmount. Ive always read to keep rubber somewhere . Either motor mounts and poly trans mount or vise versa. Box r may have trouble clearing a stock hood. Convertible poly mounts may solve that . May not.

 

[from6to8]

Stock replacement rubber transmount. Ive always read to keep rubber somewhere . Either motor mounts and poly trans mount or vise versa. Box r may have trouble clearing a stock hood. Convertible poly mounts may solve that . May not.

I have a cervini's stalker hood. Have to call them on exactly what's the raise of the hood

 

[90sickfox]

Thanks for the info man.
few questions. First, are you saying that with a stock k member it would make working on the car harder than having the aftermarket member on? Just wondering if it will be beneficial for me to have an aftermarket one

Yes, the stock k member will make it harder to get to the starter...and harder to get to the rack and pinion or power steering lines. Its a lot easier to run o2 sensor wires and header clearance is no problem at all. Neither is pan clearance. Also makes oil pan removal easier. I raised my motor and removed my 7qt canton to change my starter once way easier than removing the headers.

 

[from6to8]

Yes, the stock k member will make it harder to get to the starter...and harder to get to the rack and pinion or power steering lines. Its a lot easier to run o2 sensor wires and header clearance is no problem at all. Neither is pan clearance. Also makes oil pan removal easier. I raised my motor and removed my 7qt canton to change my starter once way easier than removing the headers.

ok
with my current setup , 302 HCI shorty headers I replaced the starter once and it wasn't bad. I guess with the 400 and LT's though it wouldn't be the same

 

[TOOLOW91]

ok
with my current setup , 302 HCI shorty headers I replaced the starter once and it wasn't bad. I guess with the 400 and LT's though it wouldn't be the same

All depends on what pan you use . Right now I'd have to pull a header or my bell housing to get my starter out . That's due to the t sump on the road race pan. The drag pan the sump is narrow and straight and allows for much better clearance .


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[from6to8]

All depends on what pan you use . Right now I'd have to pull a header or my bell housing to get my starter out . That's due to the t sump on the road race pan. The drag pan the sump is narrow and straight and allows for much better clearance .


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see man I'd hate to have to do any of that lol. I want it easy so I can do myself and NOT have to take a header loose or bellhousing or anything extreme. Some may say those things aren't that hard to do but I've never messed with the bellhousing. I did take the engine down to the block to fix a broken spring on no. 2. Pulled the headers off and painted them while I was at it and put it all back together with no issues, took my time and did it. Now having to take one loose just for maintenance if I can avoid it I will avoid it lol. Only thing is maybe no one can tell me specifically which pan and stuff to go with in order to avoid ANY issues so I may just have to do something like that to change a starter or something

 

[A5literMan]

what engine do you have?
I was under the impression that with a certain amount of cubes it was a must to run solid motor mounts at least.

Motor size doesn't matter. The solid mounts will just transfer more vibration into the chassis. The poly/rubber mounts insulate that better. As far as oil pans go, I'd recommend looking into a drag oriented one. Moroso,canton,etc. Depending on which k member you go with for road clearance. Almost all long tube headers are a pita for access to the starter. Also have you looked into a single plane efi intake/elbow combo? They have more hood clearance than a tfs box.

 

[from6to8]

Motor size doesn't matter. The solid mounts will just transfer more vibration into the chassis. The poly/rubber mounts insulate that better. As far as oil pans go, I'd recommend looking into a drag oriented one. Moroso,canton,etc. Depending on which k member you go with for road clearance. Almost all long tube headers are a pita for access to the starter. Also have you looked into a single plane efi intake/elbow combo? They have more hood clearance than a tfs box.

ok I definitely don't want to go be putting a lot of strain on the chasis because the car has had a few collisions and now needs a rear clip. That's why I'm doing all this planning and getting things together to go ahead and build a motor while I'm taking the 302 out to paint the engine bay since most of the car will need blending and makes more sense to paint whole car.

I guess I will go with rubber mounts then since they may be stronger overall than Poly's? I might just stick with the stock member not sure. Not sure why my boy tore up a lot of stuff when he went from 347 to the 408 and put solid motor mounts but had the poly tranny mount in still. Heating the tires at the track, the tranny mount let loose and he tore up a lot of stuff. He said he should have changed to a solid tranny mount as well.

Not sure I like the single plane ones. I'm one that likes looks as well as performance and like a happy medium
I will probably just go ahead and get the Edel performer rpm 2 for the 5.8 since I've had a 302 one since 05 and have always liked it. It is about 5/8 inches shorter than the TFS Box R. I know though the deck height going from 302 go 351 will be an inch plus though and hopefully I will clear the Cervini's stalker hood which is a 2-2 1/2 inch raise

 

[revhead347]

I am more interested in the quality of the short block. If you build a 408 with a factory 2 bolt main block, you need more expensive headers, a new distributor, almost certainly a cowl hood, a bunch of other little things that add up. You can build a 363 4 bolt main Dart block for the same price once you don't have to buy all the add on stuff. It has a bigger bore than the 408, so in all likelyhood will make more power, you just have to rev it a little higher which is fine with the 4 bolt.

Either way, I think you have outpaced any T-5 transmission. You are definitely in TKO 600 range, but even that isn't going to last forever. Not running slicks on the back will help everything last longer. Sticky tires are hell on your drivetrain.

The K-member is up to you. Tubular K-members tend to be a little weaker than the stock one, but they are a little lighter and make working on the car easier. I have a QA1 tubular, and honestly I didn't think it was that much lighter than the stock one. I think a set of lighter brakes are a better investment than a K-member. That reduces unsprung weight and helps you stop better.

Kurt

 

[from6to8]

I am more interested in the quality of the short block. If you build a 408 with a factory 2 bolt main block, you need more expensive headers, a new distributor, almost certainly a cowl hood, a bunch of other little things that add up. You can build a 363 4 bolt main Dart block for the same price once you don't have to buy all the add on stuff. It has a bigger bore than the 408, so in all likelyhood will make more power, you just have to rev it a little higher which is fine with the 4 bolt.

Either way, I think you have outpaced any T-5 transmission. You are definitely in TKO 600 range, but even that isn't going to last forever. Not running slicks on the back will help everything last longer. Sticky tires are hell on your drivetrain.

The K-member is up to you. Tubular K-members tend to be a little weaker than the stock one, but they are a little lighter and make working on the car easier. I have a QA1 tubular, and honestly I didn't think it was that much lighter than the stock one. I think a set of lighter brakes are a better investment than a K-member. That reduces unsprung weight and helps you stop better.

Kurt

Revving higher equals not as torquy and less power down low in the power bands I will be in most often?

Even the Astro which uses all the upgraded internals as the tremec?

 

[A5literMan]

Revving higher equals not as torquy and less power down low in the power bands I will be in most often?

Even the Astro which uses all the upgraded internals as the tremec?

The one thing you have to remember is that a 4" stroke Windsor is a completely different motor compared to a 302 based. It's like going to a big block. You will have tire shredding torque no matter what topend/cam etc you throw at it. Well over 400 ft lbs very early in the rpm band. You're going to like having the powerband moved up in the rpm range as much as possible. Like 3-5k rpm with a 6k shift point. Even a super Vic efi intake(adv range of 35-8000rpm on a 351) will make a crap ton of low speed torque and have a killer midrange. It also won't rev that high on a 408-427 type build. More likely be done at 6-6500 rpm even with a high duration cam. DONT think of these like a 302!!! Or even a 351. Completely different. You don't want it to be all done by 5000rpm with a super high lowend torque. It will be useless making power off idle to 3000rpm. It will have that power anyways. I really don't think that rpm intake is right for you. And I know this is a street car. Just saying

 

[TOOLOW91]

ok I definitely don't want to go be putting a lot of strain on the chasis because the car has had a few collisions and now needs a rear clip. That's why I'm doing all this planning and getting things together to go ahead and build a motor while I'm taking the 302 out to paint the engine bay since most of the car will need blending and makes more sense to paint whole car.

I guess I will go with rubber mounts then since they may be stronger overall than Poly's? I might just stick with the stock member not sure. Not sure why my boy tore up a lot of stuff when he went from 347 to the 408 and put solid motor mounts but had the poly tranny mount in still. Heating the tires at the track, the tranny mount let loose and he tore up a lot of stuff. He said he should have changed to a solid tranny mount as well.

Not sure I like the single plane ones. I'm one that likes looks as well as performance and like a happy medium
I will probably just go ahead and get the Edel performer rpm 2 for the 5.8 since I've had a 302 one since 05 and have always liked it. It is about 5/8 inches shorter than the TFS Box R. I know though the deck height going from 302 go 351 will be an inch plus though and hopefully I will clear the Cervini's stalker hood which is a 2-2 1/2 inch raise

Poly urethane is stronger then rubber . But doesn't transmit vibration like solid mounts do . I'd skip the edelbrock as well . Systemax , Tfs r , or victor Jr. With an elbow .


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