Engine Breaking In Cam

[03Eastside]

Hello every one,

I have a 347 stroker motor that I'm having some issue with , and I would like some help . I will post the motor spect below . I recently did the timing and it was set at 18 degrees afterwards I tried to brake the cam in , but I couldn't the car blows to much smoke that literally covers the neighborhood , and if I let go of the trouttle it will shut off it won't idle I'll have to turn it back on then it will idle on it on , but again if I would get on the gas and rev it for a few min the car won't idle properly . I keep looking at my coolant temp gauge and it would stay around 180 degrees to 190 degrees so I don't think it's the head gasket . Also it seems as if the car is not burning all the fuel properly . I really don't know what to do any more I thought it was the timing and we did again just to b sure . I'm thinking bout getting a fuel pressure regulator to control the gas more but my fuel gauge says it at 40 psi which should b fine for a stroker .


347
Ford 302 roller block.
I have an Eagle cast steel stroker crank with Eagle SIR rods. Speed Pro flat top eyelashed pistons with full float pins.
comp cams 35-775-8 cam. XFI Stroker Hydraulic Roller.
Heads pro comp 3038 which were purchased bare and send to a machine shop , 2.02 intake 1.60 exhaust , the heads are set up for the cam 5.79 "
Holly systematic ll intake manifold

 

[JD1964]

Dont need to break in a roller cam.

Who put the motor together? Your post is kind of confusing the way its written. 18 degrees initial timing is too much. What do you have in the way of tuning?

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

#2 on breaking in the cam. Roller camshafts do not need it. The solution to your smoking issue is not going to require another single thing be purchased until after. You determine the source of the leak,
Timing, tuning, and fuel pressure are not factors here.

( Not until you fix the source of the smoke).

A. Intake gasket leak sucking oil into an intake port.
B. Head gasket leak sucking in coolant into a chamber.
C. Waay too much fuel being dumped into the engine.

All three are simple enough to ascertain. Oil getting into (a)/ the ports is gonna smoke like hell. The smoke will accordingly be bluish/grey, and commensurately smell like burning oil. Oil can get into just one port and the engine will smoke like a diesel w/ 5 million miles on it. Oil can also get past the valve guides if there are no/bad valve seals.

A head gasket leak will also smoke like mad, but the smell will be decidedly more of an antifreeze "sweetness", and the smoke will be lighter grey/ more towards white, or opaque even . A head gasket leaking into a chamber will also cause your antifreeze levels to go down in your radiator. If the antifreeze you poured into your radiator has gone down (especially if you've refilled after running the engine through a heat cycle and the T stat has already opened), then that could be the reason why.

Excessive fuel, enough to cause the car to smoke is the worst of the three on a new engine. The smoke will be black, and smell like gas. If you have something going wrong w/ one/or more injectors, and they are dumping fuel into a new engine, especially as long as you've ran it, you can kiss your ring seal good bye.

Pull the spark plugs. Record which of them are wet. If you only have one or two that are wet, there is your starting point. The wet plugs are getting wet from one of the three things detailed above.

Find that out before you go about replacing stuff.

 

[03Eastside]

Dont need to break in a roller cam.

Who put the motor together? Your post is kind of confusing the way its written. 18 degrees initial timing is too much. What do you have in the way of tuning?

I was told by comp cam that I should brake the cam in also recommended .

 

[03Eastside]

#2 on breaking in the cam. Roller camshafts do not need it. The solution to your smoking issue is not going to require another single thing be purchased until after. You determine the source of the leak,
Timing, tuning, and fuel pressure are not factors here.

( Not until you fix the source of the smoke).

A. Intake gasket leak sucking oil into an intake port.
B. Head gasket leak sucking in coolant into a chamber.
C. Waay too much fuel being dumped into the engine.

All three are simple enough to ascertain. Oil getting into (a)/ the ports is gonna smoke like hell. The smoke will accordingly be bluish/grey, and commensurately smell like burning oil. Oil can get into just one port and the engine will smoke like a diesel w/ 5 million miles on it. Oil can also get past the valve guides if there are no/bad valve seals.

A head gasket leak will also smoke like mad, but the smell will be decidedly more of an antifreeze "sweetness", and the smoke will be lighter grey/ more towards white, or opaque even . A head gasket leaking into a chamber will also cause your antifreeze levels to go down in your radiator. If the antifreeze you poured into your radiator has gone down (especially if you've refilled after running the engine through a heat cycle and the T stat has already opened), then that could be the reason why.

Excessive fuel, enough to cause the car to smoke is the worst of the three on a new engine. The smoke will be black, and smell like gas. If you have something going wrong w/ one/or more injectors, and they are dumping fuel into a new engine, especially as long as you've ran it, you can kiss your ring seal good bye.

Pull the spark plugs. Record which of them are wet. If you only have one or two that are wet, there is your starting point. The wet plugs are getting wet from one of the three things detailed above.

Find that out before you go about replacing stuff.

I'm going to start with the intake gasket , it is smoking like a dispel engine lol I don't think it's the head gasket because it does not smell like it even thought I only added water to it for now . But I definitely have a good starting point , everyone else I would mention it to said it was just normal since the rings have not seal I thought it was to much .

 

[03Eastside]

#2 on breaking in the cam. Roller camshafts do not need it. The solution to your smoking issue is not going to require another single thing be purchased until after. You determine the source of the leak,
Timing, tuning, and fuel pressure are not factors here.

( Not until you fix the source of the smoke).

A. Intake gasket leak sucking oil into an intake port.
B. Head gasket leak sucking in coolant into a chamber.
C. Waay too much fuel being dumped into the engine.

All three are simple enough to ascertain. Oil getting into (a)/ the ports is gonna smoke like hell. The smoke will accordingly be bluish/grey, and commensurately smell like burning oil. Oil can get into just one port and the engine will smoke like a diesel w/ 5 million miles on it. Oil can also get past the valve guides if there are no/bad valve seals.

A head gasket leak will also smoke like mad, but the smell will be decidedly more of an antifreeze "sweetness", and the smoke will be lighter grey/ more towards white, or opaque even . A head gasket leaking into a chamber will also cause your antifreeze levels to go down in your radiator. If the antifreeze you poured into your radiator has gone down (especially if you've refilled after running the engine through a heat cycle and the T stat has already opened), then that could be the reason why.

Excessive fuel, enough to cause the car to smoke is the worst of the three on a new engine. The smoke will be black, and smell like gas. If you have something going wrong w/ one/or more injectors, and they are dumping fuel into a new engine, especially as long as you've ran it, you can kiss your ring seal good bye.

Pull the spark plugs. Record which of them are wet. If you only have one or two that are wet, there is your starting point. The wet plugs are getting wet from one of the three things detailed above.

Find that out before you go about replacing stuff.

Hello Mike
What do you think is the reason for it not idling when I hold the engine rev to around 2 rpm?

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I'm going to start with the intake gasket , it is smoking like a dispel engine lol I don't think it's the head gasket because it does not smell like it even thought I only added water to it for now . But I definitely have a good starting point , everyone else I would mention it to said it was just normal since the rings have not seal I thought it was to much .

Water isn't gonna smell obviously, and water vapor (the end result of what would get sucked into the chamber if you had a leak at the HG) wouldn't linger like typical "smoke".

So, we'll pass on the HG.

Light smoking is normal on a brand new engine depending on the internals. A good set of plasma moly rings will seat very quickly, but nothing should smoke so bad that it "covers the neighborhood".

Remove the spark plugs first. As I said earlier, there is gonna be a wet plug or plugs where the oil is getting into the chamber, and that'll give you a place to start looking for the source of the leak. You may have 8 wet plugs, you may only have one. There are guys here that know more about the stock induction system on this engine and whether or not there is another way oil finds itself a path into your engine.

Regardless of how it's getting in there, an internal combustion engine runs on Air, Fuel, Compression, and Spark. If you also have a buttload of oil getting in there, then that is one of the reasons the engine is running poorly, and won't idle.

 

[RaggedGT]

Did you put the plugs back in the lifter valley?

 

[03Eastside]

Water isn't gonna smell obviously, and water vapor (the end result of what would get sucked into the chamber if you had a leak at the HG) wouldn't linger like typical "smoke".

So, we'll pass on the HG.

Light smoking is normal on a brand new engine depending on the internals. A good set of plasma moly rings will seat very quickly, but nothing should smoke so bad that it "covers the neighborhood".

Remove the spark plugs first. As I said earlier, there is gonna be a wet plug or plugs where the oil is getting into the chamber, and that'll give you a place to start looking for the source of the leak. You may have 8 wet plugs, you may only have one. There are guys here that know more about the stock induction system on this engine and whether or not there is another way oil finds itself a path into your engine.

Regardless of how it's getting in there, an internal combustion engine runs on Air, Fuel, Compression, and Spark. If you also have a buttload of oil getting in there, then that is one of the reasons the engine is running poorly, and won't idle.

Yea I'm going to pull the plugs off tonight to see if I find anything , and on the weekend I'm going to take apart the intake to see if I find any residue of oil or anything . Thanks allot Mike .

 

[03Eastside]

Did you put the plugs back in the lifter valley?

What plugs ?

 

[mikestang63]

What plugs ?

Uh I think we may have a problem here

 

[RaggedGT]

I'd pull the intake and take a look. Do a search on this site for them, you will see what I mean

 

[03Eastside]

I'd pull the intake and take a look. Do a search on this site for them, you will see what I mean

Ok I'm going to take the intake apart this weekend hopefully it's a simple fix . Thanks you guys for the help .

 

[03Eastside]

Water isn't gonna smell obviously, and water vapor (the end result of what would get sucked into the chamber if you had a leak at the HG) wouldn't linger like typical "smoke".

So, we'll pass on the HG.

Light smoking is normal on a brand new engine depending on the internals. A good set of plasma moly rings will seat very quickly, but nothing should smoke so bad that it "covers the neighborhood".

Remove the spark plugs first. As I said earlier, there is gonna be a wet plug or plugs where the oil is getting into the chamber, and that'll give you a place to start looking for the source of the leak. You may have 8 wet plugs, you may only have one. There are guys here that know more about the stock induction system on this engine and whether or not there is another way oil finds itself a path into your engine.

Regardless of how it's getting in there, an internal combustion engine runs on Air, Fuel, Compression, and Spark. If you also have a buttload of oil getting in there, then that is one of the reasons the engine is running poorly, and won't idle.

Hello ,
I finally got to take the intake off , I notice that there was oil all over the intake ports and inside of the head , the valves were full of oil .Can this b the intake gasket that were not torque down right ? Or a intake gasket ? Or can it b the heads ?

 

[jrichker]

The gasket has shifted and the engine is sucking oil out of the lifter valley...

Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...

Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. I don't care what you spray with, you won't find the leak when it is sucking air from the lifter valley. It simply isn't possible to spray anything in there with the lower manifold bolted in place.

Intake manifold installation tips:

Whatever you do, don't skimp on cleaning the gasket surfaces. New gaskets need to seat against bare metal and not the residue left from the old gaskets in order to seal leak free. This is the most time consuming and tiresome part of the job. Put a piece of cardboard in the lifter valley to cover it up. It will reduce the amount that falls down into the valley and hydraulic lifters. I suggest that you make good use of a shop vac while you are scraping and cleaning to avoid getting the old gasket material lost inside the engine. Look for little things that need to be replaced like the short hose from the thermostat hosing to the water pump, damaged vacuum lines and hose clamps that are rusted or broken.

Plan on cutting the thermostat to water pump hose, or removing the thermostat housing. Also plan on removing the distributor to get clearance to remove the intake manifold. Remove #1 spark plug, stick your finger in the spark plug hole and crank. When your finger gets air moving past it, stop cranking. Turn the engine until the timing marks line up with the pointer. Now you can pull the distributor out.

My favorite trick that saves time and effort is the stay in place gasket. Be sure that you scrape (don't use a wire brush) all the old gasket material off, then clean all the surfaces with acetone or MEK.

When the surfaces are clean, use weather strip adhesive on the head to manifold surface. Also use the weather strip adhesive on the side of the gasket that mates to the head. When you are done, the head surface and the gasket surface that mate together will have weather strip adhesive on them. Follow the instructions on the tube or can and when it gets tacky, press the gasket down on the head.

Clean the area where the rubber rails mount to the block in front and in the rear with more acetone or MEK and do the same trick with the weather strip adhesive that you did to the heads.

Coat the rubber seals and the gasket area around the water passages with lots of Blue Silicone gasket sealer and put it together. Bingo! no leaks, and no gaskets that shifted out of place.

If you reuse the injectors from your old setup, a repair kit is available from most auto parts stores if needed. Coat the injector body "O" rings with oil before you use them and everything will slide back together.

Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $3.50 - $4.00 per kit. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:

http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Use motor oil on the O rings when you re-assemble them & everything will slide into place. The gasoline will wash away any excess oil that gets in the wrong places and it will burn up in the combustion chamber.

 

[03Eastside]

The gasket has shifted and the engine is sucking oil out of the lifter valley...

Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...

Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. I don't care what you spray with, you won't find the leak when it is sucking air from the lifter valley. It simply isn't possible to spray anything in there with the lower manifold bolted in place.

Intake manifold installation tips:

Whatever you do, don't skimp on cleaning the gasket surfaces. New gaskets need to seat against bare metal and not the residue left from the old gaskets in order to seal leak free. This is the most time consuming and tiresome part of the job. Put a piece of cardboard in the lifter valley to cover it up. It will reduce the amount that falls down into the valley and hydraulic lifters. I suggest that you make good use of a shop vac while you are scraping and cleaning to avoid getting the old gasket material lost inside the engine. Look for little things that need to be replaced like the short hose from the thermostat hosing to the water pump, damaged vacuum lines and hose clamps that are rusted or broken.

Plan on cutting the thermostat to water pump hose, or removing the thermostat housing. Also plan on removing the distributor to get clearance to remove the intake manifold. Remove #1 spark plug, stick your finger in the spark plug hole and crank. When your finger gets air moving past it, stop cranking. Turn the engine until the timing marks line up with the pointer. Now you can pull the distributor out.

My favorite trick that saves time and effort is the stay in place gasket. Be sure that you scrape (don't use a wire brush) all the old gasket material off, then clean all the surfaces with acetone or MEK.

When the surfaces are clean, use weather strip adhesive on the head to manifold surface. Also use the weather strip adhesive on the side of the gasket that mates to the head. When you are done, the head surface and the gasket surface that mate together will have weather strip adhesive on them. Follow the instructions on the tube or can and when it gets tacky, press the gasket down on the head.

Clean the area where the rubber rails mount to the block in front and in the rear with more acetone or MEK and do the same trick with the weather strip adhesive that you did to the heads.

Coat the rubber seals and the gasket area around the water passages with lots of Blue Silicone gasket sealer and put it together. Bingo! no leaks, and no gaskets that shifted out of place.

If you reuse the injectors from your old setup, a repair kit is available from most auto parts stores if needed. Coat the injector body "O" rings with oil before you use them and everything will slide back together.

Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $3.50 - $4.00 per kit. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:

http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/

Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.

Use motor oil on the O rings when you re-assemble them & everything will slide into place. The gasoline will wash away any excess oil that gets in the wrong places and it will burn up in the combustion chamber.

Thank you so much for all the guidance and taking your time to write everything for me step by step . I was terrified when I sow so much oil , I could not believe it was the gasket , and certainly did not want it to happens again . You guys all have been a blessing thanks again .

 

[JD1964]

What about valve seals? I've seen heads assembled where the valve seals were not installed. That can suck a fair amount of oil into the combustion chamber. Look on the inside of the valve springs and make sure the valve seals are there.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

What about valve seals? I've seen heads assembled where the valve seals were not installed. That can suck a fair amount of oil into the combustion chamber. Look on the inside of the valve springs and make sure the valve seals are there.

I had a 428CJ where the machine shop assembled the heads using the wrong valve seals. It smoked like a freight train when I started it as well. When trying to find the problem, I looked at the springs there were no visible umbrella seals sitting on the guide bosses,......they were all up at the bottom of the retainers instead.

But I don't think that's the problem here as oil is at the entrance to the intake port as well.

I'm saying intake gasket movement/improper installation.

 

[03Eastside]

I had a 428CJ where the machine shop assembled the heads using the wrong valve seals. It smoked like a freight train when I started it as well. When trying to find the problem, I looked at the springs there were no visible umbrella seals sitting on the guide bosses,......they were all up at the bottom of the retainers instead.

But I don't think that's the problem here as oil is at the entrance to the intake port as well.

I'm saying intake gasket movement/improper installation.

I think it's the gasket also but again I have lil experience with building motor this is actually my first built . I'm just waiting on some Arp studs that I have orders to get everything back together . I think I do see the valve seats on there . Are they gold ?

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I think it's the gasket also but again I have lil experience with building motor this is actually my first built . I'm just waiting on some Arp studs that I have orders to get everything back together . I think I do see the valve seats on there . Are they gold ?

That's a guide. A valve seal is visible through the spring coil sitting on top of the guide boss.