T5 Whine Gear Photos

[Martman]

So I have the notorious whine that is worse in 1st and non existent in 4th and very faint in 5th. Just pulled the tran in the process of fixing oil leaks. I have just pulled the input shaft as I suspected the tip of the main shaft would be galled but it looks good. The input shaft gear looks rough and the teeth are razor sharp. The cluster gear looks to have decent wear as well.

I would love the opinion of those familiar with these to tell me what you see. I will be breaking the case open as I need to pull the tailshaft to put in a new bushing but not diving into this just yet until I get the other stuff done.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Input shaft to countergear mesh is bad which caused the whine under load.

Id check tooth counts of the input and countergear to confirm they are part of the same gearset. How many teeth is that input?

 

[Martman]

23 tooth input. Do you think both would need to be replaced or just input. This is the first time I have been up close to the internals of a t-5 to know if that counter gear is worn badly.

Here is a video from yesterday showing how much end play this thing had.

https://goo.gl/photos/zEYQU4Ym68koDr1R7

 

[Mustang5L5]

You need to replace both. That countergear is messed up as well

 

[Martman]

Yeah after looking at it further I can see the damage. Thanks for taking a look.

 

[Martman]

I need some guidance before I spend too much time searching for prices and parts to do the rebuild myself.

It looks to be about $200.00 for new input shaft and counter gear set. If the rest of the trans looks okay (it still shifts fine) what else from a rebuild kit would I want to get?

I see these all inclusive $370 kits but I honestly don't think I am in need for that. This is currently a stock motor and I am wanting to treat it as a DD when the weather warms up. I have several other maintenance items that I need to get done and trying to balance the budget and timeline a bit.

I have seen several posts where people say they can buy a rebuilt trans for the price of a rebuild kit but I have yet to find any of those.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Mustang5L5]

You can replace as much, or as little as you really want.

All the bearings are standard. Google the part number on the side and you'll find a number of sources selling them individually for $5-10 or so. The individual gears can be purchased from vendors online (ebay, The Gearbox, hanlon motorsports) and you can even find the small parts individually from various vendors as well.


What I'd do is a total teardown, labeling parts in zip lock bags and performing inspections. Anything questionable, replace. Most rebuild kits come with bearings, which I find usually don't go bad. There used to be some kits that were just wearable parts like springs, synchro fingers and clips and blocker rings.

I had one T5 that ground 2nd gear. All I replaced in that trans was the 2nd gear speed geat and the 1-2 synchro and put it back together. Sold it to a friend and he put it in his car and drove it another 20-30K miles without issue until he sold it. I think I paid $50 for the two parts at the time.

T-5 parts have gone up considerably though. Nowadays it's almost cheaper to buy one brand new if you grenade it, vs trying to rebuild. $200 for the gears isn't bad, but combined with nearly $400 for a full rebuild kit and I'd seriously consider a new trans and just parting out that T5.

If an inspection pans out, I'd just replace the gears and call it a day. My thought however is WHY did those two gears gall up that way? Was there misalighnment of the input shaft? Wrong tooth count? Did one tooth chip off and the damage chewed up the rest of the gears? Input bearing fail?

 

[Martman]

Your last paragraph is what has me a bit worried. I am going to break it down. I don't have much history on the trans. I know there was too much play with input shaft and too much play in the yoke on the opposite end so maybe the combination of those two have resulted in the meshing wear.

 

[Mustang5L5]

You will always have play with those two shafts when the trans is removed. The snout of the input shaft fits inside the pilot bearing, and the mainshaft slips inside the yoke which rides inside the tailshaft bushing. When you remove the yoke, and the pilot bearing, those shafts will move.

Spec is IN-and-OUT play which is not desirable and which is what you shim for.

I assume you have this?
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/techarticles/t5rebuildmanual.pdf

Another good step by step which shows how to modify the mainshaft to accept a Z-spec style tapered roller bearing. I plan to do this with my next T5
http://www.flatheadv8.org/T5Rebuild.pdf

 

[Martman]

If the tailshaft bushing is worn out it would contribute to play that is not anticipated with the yoke in place if I am understanding correctly. I had a decent amount of play at the yoke and a slight leak. I had planned to replace the bushing as well. The yoke has two rings of wear on it that are clearly visible.

 

[Martman]

Finally got around to breaking this thing down a bit more to see inside. Obviously need to input shaft and cluster gear but is anything else glaring that needs to be replaced from the pics?

Here is a quick video of the gears inside the case. Keep in mind I already had 5th gear off so main shaft is loose which is why it sounds so bad when turning it.
https://goo.gl/photos/HAvFYu3uSxhDD57Q9

 

[Mustang5L5]

First photo. Need to inspect the dog teeth very carefully and the mating engagement teeth on the synchro. When they start to deform, you start getting grinding issues. You can see the teeth on 2nd gear are starting to look a bit "mashed" on one side. Do you ever have issues with 2nd gear?

Inspect the mating synchro on the inside for damage as well. I would consider replacing these while I'm here, or you can just roll the dice.

I'd inspect the teeth on the other gears as well.

Here's a shot of the same area on a t5 I rebuilt with new parts. The teeth should all have a shape similar to this. 1st on the right, 2nd gear on the left. The straight cut teeth in the center pic is where reverese engages. This is a new gear, but the wear on yours isn't bad really.

 

[Martman]

Never really have any problem shifting. But then again I don't dog it or powershift really.

 

[Martman]

Can anyone tell me what the Koyo bearing numbers are for the following:
Input Shaft
Cluster/Counter gear set bearings?

I was pretty sure that the cluster used two koyo M88048 and I think the input shaft uses LM48548/LM48510 (SET 5) but not having any luck putting the correct words into google to get a confirmation on that.

This is the info from the transmission.
Tag
F0ZR 7003 AA REP-AV
13-52-199 65699 G3103

Cluster stamped with 065
Input stamped with 2025

 

[Fordfreak93]

https://www.astroperformance.com/product/cluster-bearing-kit/

 

[Martman]

Thanks I found a set for about the same price and they pressed the bearings on for me. To be honest I didn't even think about Astro as I suspected they would only carry upgraded gears out of my price range. I forgot to order shims so now waiting on them from 5speeds with the peel shim kit.

 

[Martman]

Just wanted to post a follow-up on the thread now that I am done. I replaced the input shaft and bearing and countershaft and bearings, tailshaft bushing, and tailshaft seal. Drove the car for the first time tonight and the trans is very quiet now. I also did the motor mount, rear main seal and repair sleeve. Went ahead and put in a new clutch kit.