05 GT vs MACH1 race RESULTS.....thats right...RESULTS!

[GNN60GT500]

BTW....the car was off the production line.....it was not one of the hand built prototypes.....

The company in question originally had an automatic hand built prototype, however they told Ford they wanted a 5 speed car, so Ford sent them this car with a real VIN number and so on.....and told them it was one of the first few off the production line......

I did check on that angle as I also remember what happened with the MACH1s that ran 12s.....


there are still more variables though....maybe the guy driving the 05 could shift better?

I think there will be a lot of races that support this first one, and a lot of races that come out with the MACH on top....

Im just giving you the results from the first of what I am sure will be many....

 

[Jpjr]

An 05 mustang with 300hp would never beat a Mach with 330hp. Even adding a CB, you would never gain 30hp with that size motor. The Mach is a much more aerodynamic car, and head to head would always win if driving weren't a factor.

 

[ttown]

Well you certainly have to know how to drive the car your racing. In a race from a roll the one that get the jump usually wins. How fast were they going? What gear? On the Mach you need to be over 4k for max power shifting 1st to 2nd at around 6400rpm and from then on about 6250 rpms. The Cobra you had to be near redline to before shifting it. Knowing your car matters in all the current mustangs and the times recorded.

 

[one2gamble]

An 05 mustang with 300hp would never beat a Mach with 330hp. Even adding a CB, you would never gain 30hp with that size motor. The Mach is a much more aerodynamic car, and head to head would always win if driving weren't a factor.

this is interesting, the dyno numbers are putting the 05 at 310-320hp, It also seems to be able to put that power to the ground much better than the previous generation. I wouldnt call bs on any of this with the auto 05 running a 13.6

 

[351CJ]

An 05 mustang with 300hp would never beat a Mach with 330hp. Even adding a CB, you would never gain 30hp with that size motor. The Mach is a much more aerodynamic car, and head to head would always win if driving weren't a factor.

We have already discussed the first dyno #'s on the '05. The '05 is putting out almost the same peak RWHP as the Mach 1. Between 4200 adn 6200 RPM HP and torque are almost idendical. The one missing bit of information is what the '05 GT torqe looks like from 1500 to 4200 RPM. The '05 GT may have more torqe at these RPMs due to its VVT and more sophisticated intake manifold.

HP is meaninless for acceleration. Torque is the only thing that matters.

How do you know that the Mach 1 is much more aerodynamic? Looks can be deceiving. Please post the aerodynamic drag #'s for the Mach 1 and the '05 GT so we can have some facts, not your speculation.

 

[ttown]

this is interesting, the dyno numbers are putting the 05 at 310-320hp, It also seems to be able to put that power to the ground much better than the previous generation. I wouldnt call bs on any of this with the auto 05 running a 13.6

I hear they are putting a 5 speed auto in the 05 so I'd expect times to be closer to the 5 speed stick since the gears will be much closer together. My GF wanted an auto Mach or I may have got the 05 but she didn't like the body style. I'm sure the biggest difference is going to be in the auto cars not the 5 speeds.

 

[blazinsteed]

Why is everyone comparing it to the mach?

 

[Hotdog]

Why is everyone comparing it to the mach?

I don’t understand why every body asks this obvious question all the time.

You cant compare it to the 04 GT because their has been a significant increase in power. No one is going to compare it to an 04 cobra because it’s not even close to running with one.

So lets think about this. An 04 to compare it to.....Hmmm

How about a car that has almost the exact same horse power and torque, and little weight difference.

The fact remains that the Mach is the best car to compare the 05 to at his point, if their was something better to compare it to that’s what we would be doing. But their is not, It's a very simple concept.

When it's all said and done you will realize that the 05 and the mach are closer matched than any thing else ford puts out.


That one guy "however said it" is very right about the aerodynamic issue. When dealing with something as complicated as that you can’t just make assumptions by looks. What would be the point in developing a wind tunnel?
The reason I bring it up is because I use to have a kit car *Laser 917* people would always make comments about the great aerodynamics of the car. When in actuality if taken much past 110mph the car would lift its front tires in the air. Due to way to much down force in the rear, the design was obviously never tested in a wind tunnel. Of course the car wasn’t meant to be traveling at those speeds any way as it was a VW based kit.

 

[mach1dsg]

Forget a little rolling start drag race. What happens when you have to take a corner?

You guys seem to have missed this little gem in the M/T article:



And that's with those crappy tall, narrow, all season tires you guys keep pissing and moaning about. Imagine how good the '05 will be once we get the 18" performance tires on it.

does that m/t stand for motortrend???, if so, i stopped buying that magazine when they said the sti was faster than a terminator cobra

would it be possible for you to post the slalom numbers or whatever numbers they got out of the new pony compared to the other mustangs????

i hope the 05 gt guys won't use the typical ricer excuse when they get beaten by a mustang "you got me on the straights, but i'll hand you azz on the twisties" J/K ok, i think the car would be fast...

now, faster than a mach 1???, that's yet to be seen
(friendly comment ok!!!, not meant to bash the car in any way)

 

[GNN60GT500]

Well you certainly have to know how to drive the car your racing. In a race from a roll the one that get the jump usually wins. How fast were they going? What gear? On the Mach you need to be over 4k for max power shifting 1st to 2nd at around 6400rpm and from then on about 6250 rpms. The Cobra you had to be near redline to before shifting it. Knowing your car matters in all the current mustangs and the times recorded.

from a roll in 1st gear......Im pretty sure everyone knew what they were doing....these guys have been building Mustangs for a long long time.....

of course this is just an assumption though.....

 

[SWTSWNG]

We have already discussed the first dyno #'s on the '05. The '05 is putting out almost the same peak RWHP as the Mach 1. Between 4200 adn 6200 RPM HP and torque are almost idendical. The one missing bit of information is what the '05 GT torqe looks like from 1500 to 4200 RPM. The '05 GT may have more torqe at these RPMs due to its VVT and more sophisticated intake manifold.

HP is meaninless for acceleration. Torque is the only thing that matters.

How do you know that the Mach 1 is much more aerodynamic? Looks can be deceiving. Please post the aerodynamic drag #'s for the Mach 1 and the '05 GT so we can have some facts, not your speculation.

Man I have read posts from you concerning the new Mustang and you would think that you designed it. For weeks you have been telling people how inferior every mustang ever made has been up to this point with out ever realizing your bias. This car while an improvement is not going to be as nice as people are making it out to be.

I am sure Ford loves you for doing what you are doing. You are shoving the '05 down peoples throats and telling them that the car they bought last year is inferior and don't to seem to even bother with a fair comparison. Is it possible the '05 might not be as great as you think it is?

Now most people will think that I am an '05 hater. I am not. I have seen it many times, however have not driven it so I will reserve my comments until I do so. On the other hand I don't believe that the average person is not going to notice a huge difference in the car from the 99-04's. You could only appreciate the handling if you autocross regularly. Not many people take a 90 degree turn at 50mph on the way home from work. As far as brakes, the Mach and Cobra have better but it is a step up from the GT. Acceleration will be better no doubt but most bolt on 99-04's will run with it. It has the same rear, same solid axle, same transmition, and same fit/finish. (yes i did see the car) Yes the interior uses better materials but o'mon how much do you really need. Imagine the surprise when the new '05 hits the streets and current mustang owners going to be disappointed when they go drive/buy these cars and realize that their '04 with exhaust, gears, and CAI will pretty much run with it.

I love the car. I do. I am not a troll or a hater. I just think this car is getting a little inflated. It makes it hard to like a car with so much hype, fluff, and false praise. Most people here haven't seen it much less driven it. The funny thing is, I will probably get another mustang to add to the stable in a couple years when Ford does something that I can't live without and this craziness dyes down.

Please no one take this as an insult, it just a car, I am just giving my opinion. With that said, I am just as excited as most of you, its just I am a little reserved until I can drive this thing for myself.

 

[Stangninjak]

Hmm the Mach vs. a 05. To be honest, from what I have seen and read, a 05 should be a good match for a Mach1. The new engine in the 05 might have a litle more mustard then people are giving it credit for..and if it is more efficiant...well there you have it.

I would like to see one run for myself, and in Nov I get to test one out at the Ford Racing test drive here in FL. Hopefully, maybe, somoene will have one at morroso before then, and then I can see what this car really does.

Either way, I think the 05 is going to be a good seller for Ford.

 

[mach1dsg]

We have already discussed the first dyno #'s on the '05. The '05 is putting out almost the same peak RWHP as the Mach 1. Between 4200 adn 6200 RPM HP and torque are almost idendical. The one missing bit of information is what the '05 GT torqe looks like from 1500 to 4200 RPM. The '05 GT may have more torqe at these RPMs due to its VVT and more sophisticated intake manifold.

HP is meaninless for acceleration. Torque is the only thing that matters.

How do you know that the Mach 1 is much more aerodynamic? Looks can be deceiving. Please post the aerodynamic drag #'s for the Mach 1 and the '05 GT so we can have some facts, not your speculation.

i'd like to see that dyno, i wonder about the powerband of that engine...

 

[wriggly1dog]

I am brand new here...I own a Mach and have owned a GT and a 93 5.0 LX. I also have 2 friends that own 03 Cobras. I do have a little experience with cars.
If you look at the height of the intake on the new 05 and figure out the actual length of the runners and then take into consideration the probable improvement in cylider head flow because of this and then the implication of variable cam timing on the torque, not to mention that a 3 valve configuration designed correctly will have more low end than the 4 valve. It is a very credible scenario. Besides, Does anybody think, after Fords commitment to SVT. They will bring out a new product without improving performance?
To the gentleman that quoted 330 hp for a stock Mach....I dont know where you pulled that number from. But, I can imagine.
I for one look forward to the new cars. When I bought my Mach I traded a GT convert. I want another convertible. I will have fun with the Mach till next year and then who knows? Fast is not everything....But it is fun!

 

[Omegalock]

This has spread like wild fire but yikes...pulling on a Mach from a roll. Can't wait for the Mustang magazines to get these cars lined up and tested in one big shoot out. That'll end all the posturing and BS throwing period.

 

[mach1dsg]

I am brand new here...I own a Mach and have owned a GT and a 93 5.0 LX. I also have 2 friends that own 03 Cobras. I do have a little experience with cars.
If you look at the height of the intake on the new 05 and figure out the actual length of the runners and then take into consideration the probable improvement in cylider head flow because of this and then the implication of variable cam timing on the torque, not to mention that a 3 valve configuration designed correctly will have more low end than the 4 valve. It is a very credible scenario. Besides, Does anybody think, after Fords commitment to SVT. They will bring out a new product without improving performance?
To the gentleman that quoted 330 hp for a stock Mach....I dont know where you pulled that number from. But, I can imagine.
I for one look forward to the new cars. When I bought my Mach I traded a GT convert. I want another convertible. I will have fun with the Mach till next year and then who knows? Fast is not everything....But it is fun!

i guess he was talking about crank hp
mach1: 280rwhp / 0.85 = 330 at the crank
somebody said they have a dyno on a 05 GT putting down 275rwhp
that would be around 324hp at the crank
i think the numbers are pretty close, same gears,the powerband could be different as well as the peak curves, but i haven't seen a dyno out of a 05 gt, so i don't know about this, also what about the weight of the car????
we would have to wait to see

 

[drummer]

We have already discussed the first dyno #'s on the '05. The '05 is putting out almost the same peak RWHP as the Mach 1. Between 4200 adn 6200 RPM HP and torque are almost idendical. The one missing bit of information is what the '05 GT torqe looks like from 1500 to 4200 RPM. The '05 GT may have more torqe at these RPMs due to its VVT and more sophisticated intake manifold.

HP is meaninless for acceleration. Torque is the only thing that matters.

How do you know that the Mach 1 is much more aerodynamic? Looks can be deceiving. Please post the aerodynamic drag #'s for the Mach 1 and the '05 GT so we can have some facts, not your speculation.

How is HP meaningless? you can have all the torque in the world and not as much HP and have a wicked launch but after that its going to be a dog. HP is the working mechanic once torque gets your going.

 

[Silverbull271]

Who the **** cares who you are...you are NOBODY....no wait you are somebopdy, somebody full of ****

Dont go running your mouth like your all that ....put it to sleep MR. GNN

Your just one of those unlucky people who cant find a new '04 Mach 1

KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT YOU NEWBIE!

SUCK on something if it will help you quiet down!

 

[pinski]

i think the numbers are pretty close, same gears,

Is the 2005 GT going to have 3:55's as well? I figured the good ol boys at Ford would stick the poor car with 3.27's or 2.73's

 

[Silverbull271]

Yeah lets all listen to a tall big red haired MR. FORD....I think not!
Shut up already!
People love to make other people think they are important and have more information than you.....like they are special...theses are the people in the world who are pothetic...remember this....the smartest guy in the room ALWAYS makes the other people in the room think they are smarter than him