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Discussion in '2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by Uber M3, Jun 28, 2005.
05 Mustang plus a few grand worth of bolt-ons should trounce the yuppie-mobile.
But it isnt true. American cars are not designed to go 55.
The second the word "ExCon" pops up - DocGTO is there to add a few comments? What's up Doc! Do you have the word "ExCon" rigged so it sends you an email if it pops up on the forum? Or is this by chance? Just kidding. Although I completey agree with your comment on the BMW's - great under warranty - but when it's time to fix things after that - big $$$.
American cars are definately not designed to do just 55mph. He just had to put in his sarcastic remarks in his sig to get us going. True, most German cars can and are designed for some time on the Autobahn - but many are not designed for that speed - just like in the USA. Heck, last time I was in a Dodge Neon (if you can consider that a car) it would do about 100mph. As far as the Autobahn goes, let's see: There ARE 2005 Mustang GT's on the road, corvettes, and Yes, Even Docs GTO could probably go there (ha ha).
Of course, we know Doc would have to slow down a little for me to catch up - and not keep it floored so I could hang, but we could still cruise 140 mph down the Autobahn.
I hope my stang wasn't designed to go 55 because I generally go well over that speed. However, being objective, it does seem like companies such as BMW aim to maximize performance of their sports cars, whereas Ford seems to have given us just enough to keep us happy even though they could've given us more. I think it would've been nice of Ford to pump out a few more horses on the stang. Hell, most of the people here have probably complained that Ford could've given us more power in the 05GT.
The thing is, the demand for these cars is there so Ford doesn't need to give us more even though it would be very easy for them to do so at not much extra cost (all they had to do was tune it properly and they could've added an extra 10 to 20 horses). I think there is some truth to Uber's signature. Not to say stangs were designed to go 55, but they clearly weren't designed to fully meet the cars own potential. It's not like Ford couldn't have designed the stang to simply blow the M3 away (the GT500 is clear evidence of what a mustang is capable of). It jus didn't make business sense for Ford to do it. In business, there's no need to give people more when they'll settle for less. That way, when more is offered a few years from now, they'll be able to charge more for it and the people who settled for less early will upgrade to the 'superior' product. It's simple economics my friends. Ford isn't stupid, but they clearly didn't design this car thinking "lets get the most power we can out of it". They designed it saying "lets make this car fast enough."
This is probably why there's such a huge market for mods for stangs - because the car has so much potential to be an absolute beast. We just have to do it ourselves with some aftermarket mods.
Does anyone else notice that the 05 Mustang has been pounding the crap out of all the Euro cars on the the Grand-Am Cup circuit???
I know the Mustang has the 5.0 Cammer engine in it but the BMW's and Porsche's aren't stock either.
http://www.grandamerican.com/CONTENT/Docs/PDF/2005/mosport Cup Mfg Points.pdf
Not "track cars" my butt
So much for cars "built" for the Autobahn
A list of the competitors if you are not familiar:
A guy who posts on LS1.com and maybe even here had a turbo'ed 99+ Mustang GT. It was in one of MM&FF shoot-outs a couple of years ago, silver in color. Insanely fast in the quarter. Anyway, he commented not to long ago that he could barely stay ahead of a stock M3 at speed on the highway. His mustang definitely outpowered the M3. Apparently, like said above, they were meant to run fast. I think in the twisties, it would be no contest, M3 all the way judging by what I've read. I've never driven one but have ridden in a buddies 03 M3. Handles like it's on rails. Sweet car.
We're just talking bone stock here. But you really have proved my point. The Mustang has the potential to be an amazing car that blows everyone else out of the water. Don't get me wrong - I love my stang and even bone stock it's more than enough power for me. But it could be so much more - Ford just chooses not to offer more because they don't have to.
And I should add, I'll take the looks and style (exterior and interior) of the stang over ANY other car - whether from Europe, Asia or the States.
I think everyone is making this thread get way out of hand. All of these comments attacking his sig and saying how he is like Excon just b/c he likes BMWs is silly. He never once said anything derogatory (at least I didn't see anything) about our stangs and was simply asking how an 05 M3 and a 05 Mustang GT stacked up. Like someone said before, it would basically be a drivers race with a slight edge to the M3. But, like Uber M3 said, M3s are not really made for the 1/4th mile and are more of a road course car, where they clearly excel. I would love to have a M3 if I had the money, but alas I don't and I am stuck with my fun-as-hell Mustang .
Using the GT500 to describe what the basic GT is capable of is just silly. Its the Ford GT engine tucked inside a Mustang body. You cant say that a supercharged 5.4 relates much to a 4.6.
The 4.6 can do great things though with about $6000 in change. You got a straight line shooter for about 11 seconds untill the bottom end blows.
Some of this thread is really getting funny.
The original poster seems to have been posting with honest intentions and should NOT be dinged for it. I traded a BMW 540 for my stang. There are areas that the BMW definitely excels. Long-distance high speed is one of them so I would have to agree with part of his sig. "SOME" German cars are built for 155MPH but not all.
Now, to be fair, an M3 should be compared to a GT500 NOT a Mustang GT. The M3 and GT500 are "factory tuners" not your standard production fare. Both are substantially more expensive than the 'stock' cars they were built from. Both are extremely fast and exclusive.
BTW... I HAVE driven an M3 (quite a bit actually), and a 540 and now I own a Mustang GT. They are very different cars built for different purposes.
You couldn't have said it any better. The three valves are a step up but the bottom end is still the same old "glass" affair.
Guys believe it or not I respect Mustangs. I've always liked Mustangs... Except anything from 72-93... Sorry just never cared for them. Especially the 80's, everyone I new had one. But all in all, if I was to buy an American car it would most likely be a Stang.
I don't know who Excon is please believe me when I say I'm not him. There is a guy on this bored that can vouch for me. dpjedi is a friend of mine. he posted earlier. BUt as stated above I'm just wondering how you guy's feel. And the general consensus is that it would be a drivers race.
Thank you for all of your input and I apologize if I upset any of you. That was never my intention. If my sig bothers everyone that much considerate gone. But realize thats a generalization.
Your sig didn't bother me a bit.... I just don't think that the VW Beetle was designed for 155MPH...
Glad your here... but be careful!!! These Mustangs will get under your skin and you'll be drivin' one.....
so, who's racing the m3???, come on guys, uberM3 wants to have a legal race on a 1/4 mile track, to see how his car would fare against a 05 mustang gt..
i wouldn't think twice to accept a friendly and legal challenge.
what's up with that????
some of you guys are just going around an around, if the stang had this an that..., come on......, drop the mm&ff magazines and get somebody to race that m3....
uber what mods do you have????
you could come to svtperformance.com and post the challenge if you want to race a 99/01 cobra, or mach1registry.com if you want to race a mach1. you wouldn't wait this long to race against a sn95 mustang
beep, beep, beep, Danger Will Robinson, Danger . . .
Excon has been mentioned!!!
Not really. I just got on the forum and saw this thread and replyed!
The M3 is a full production vehicle and although M is BMW motorsports divsision its still the same company. It's not a limited run special. It more BMW's Corvette, it just happens to look like the cheaper and far less exciting 3 series, but then thats just Germany's way.
In fact the current M3 was the 1st 3 series to be launched for that incarnation/generation.
However there has been some talk about the new GT500 being biult to demand (Not being quite as limited as they once were). And SVT is most definately the same company as Ford.
yeah I guess the big difference is that the SVO then later the SVT guys used to take a stock Mustang and change components to make a faster, better edition. The GT500 looks more like it will be more of a dedicated model but it in principle is still a GT with different components.
To my understanding the M3 is the opporsit, it was designed from the outset, and the lesser models are modified M3's (to produce less not more power/handling).
Alpina is probably a closer comparsion to SVT in terms of what they do. I think they are an independant company but so is SVT (I think its owned by Ford rather than actually being Ford, same as Jagaur is).
Alpina take a BMW shell and in the case of the 5 series model BMW also supply the unique V8 engine to Alpina, they appear to assemble lots of different BMW parts to make a different model. Which is what SVT usually does, they take Ford technology from other vehicles and put it all together to come up with a kick ass package.
Ford should have no way put more power in a car that is easily affordable to a lot of people. Just imagine a car that can run 12.5’s in the 1320 available to anyone that wants it for $25K. You’ll have people killing themselves left and right and the insurance rates would be out of this world. Ford designed a well-rounded car with some good get up and go and priced it right. If you need more performance then that out of the car, mod it or buy something faster. I’m scared sheetless as it is now being on the road with all these idiots, never mind is there were 150,000 more cars on the road that could do 160mph.