10 Sec V6

Discussion in '1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by BlackMach1, Feb 20, 2004.


  1. UmmYeahOk

    UmmYeahOk New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh, and another thing, I had a sick idea about buying up a totaled saleen or cobra. I love my car dearly and wanted to make the saleen a parts car to fix up the V6. But the VINs make the idea retarded. Ok, so I could have a saleen replicar, or a restored saleen, now which sounds better to you? Techincally one would make the v6 the parts car for the saleen, the other way around may just seem stupid and weird.

    But being that I love my car and spent more than 6 years of "our" life together, turning my love into a parts car sickens me more. So now then, if I were to fix it up, why should it be cast down as a crappy replicar than a restored saleen? I mean, no matter which way I went with it, the amount of the actual saleen pieces would only be a fraction of the real car?

    Now I can see the annoyance of a 145hp car displaying cobra emblems... Ok, some punk kid challenges the v6 and wins, soon he tells everyone he smoked a cobra. And soon the cobra community is looked down upon. I have a cobra rr hood, cobra r rims, custom front bumper, and a two piece speedster cover. I've had tons of people ask if its a cobra, saleen, mach, whatever. But I display my v6 badges with pride and tell them. And I dont except races I know I'll lose. My pieces are missed matched any way. No cobra or saleen, roush, bullet, or whatever in 1994 looked like that. Anyone running around town claiming I'm one is deadly wrong. It just "looks fast"
  2. '66 coupe

    '66 coupe Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Yea. But like it or not, a Shelby shell with a VIN that checks out is worth a lot more than a GT fastback shell. You pay for the VIN. If you don't want to dish out the cash or can't...live with the fact that your car was never the original, but enjoy it for what it is. Just don't expect it to get the same attention as an original.
  3. '66 coupe

    '66 coupe Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Yes. It's all in the history.
    Your car was not delivered to Saleen. Your car never went down their assembly line. If you're going to keep the car, then I say do whatever. But unless you're planning on keeping it forever, you will find out that buyers don't care what your opinion is. If it doesn't have the proper VIN, it's never gonna be worth as much.
  4. ChaosStarter

    ChaosStarter Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,671
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    [QUOTE='66 coupe]Yea. But like it or not, a Shelby shell with a VIN that checks out is worth a lot more than a GT fastback shell. You pay for the VIN. If you don't want to dish out the cash or can't...live with the fact that your car was never the original, but enjoy it for what it is. Just don't expect it to get the same attention as an original.[/QUOTE]


    Yup. It's like this. You could have a GT fastback with a 429, and that's cool, but it's still just a GT. You could also have a beaten up authentic Boss with an inline-6 that some ripped the original 429 out of, and it would still be worth more because of the vin. You could always change the engine out.
  5. UmmYeahOk

    UmmYeahOk New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But this is what Im confused about. What makes something a replicar and what makes it restored? What if the saleen got rear ended and pushed into a front in colissision, and the only salvagable part is the engine? That has a VIN. But if I put that into my car it would be a replicar? even with the engines VIN?

    The other view point was taking every body part off the saleen and replacing then with the v6s. Ya know, make the v6 the parts car and restore the original saleen. So still that same engine still displays that saleen VIN... ...but fenders, doors, everything, has the v6 VIN, What makes that a restored saleen than a replicar?

    Saleen parts car for v6 = 10% of a real saleen
    v6 parts car for saleen = 10% of a real saleen

    Yet one is a restored saleen, the other a replicar. How? I'm sorry, I just dont understand. But its true with the classic mach, if that front fender had the best VIN, accept that, if that saleen engine had the best vin, take that. Its just very confusing.
  6. '66 coupe

    '66 coupe Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    39
    If the V6 has a Saleen engine, then it's simply a V6 with a Saleen engine.

    If you use the V6 for a parts car, you will have a salvaged Saleen, complete with salvage title and all. Not worth as much as an untouched Saleen, but still worth more than a V6 of the same year.

    I seriously doubt you will run into a situation where the majority of parts will have to come from another car. In most situations you will only have to replace a couple body panels, suspensions pieces, maybe some framework. Therefore, if you're starting with a wrecked Saleen, there's a good chance you will be able to retain most of the original equipment with the original VIN. Your situation seems like a big "what if" where the Saleen would've just gone to the crusher.
  7. silverstangman

    silverstangman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i understand everyone's point for argument and whatnot.but the bottom line is that the guy thought it was gay that someone would put cobra emblems on a mark when it came like that from the factory, all i was trying to state was this simple fact.imo i have no problem in someone say swapping a cobra motor into a v6 and puttin cobra emblems on it, personally i wouldnt do it i'd keep the running pony's to keep it semi sleeper. and in my opinion as well there is nothing wrong with putting cobra bodykit pieces on a gt just not the emblems. as far as the whole vin argument goes, who cares about the vin-you win best in class at the car show with your 460 big blocked nitrous gulping 66 fastback with more chrome on the engine than puff daddy has bad songs, you dont lose because of the vin saying that it came with a straight six. you win for what you have done to the car. as for resale value, if i spend a 100 grand customizing the crap out of my stang i sure as hell wouldnt sell it for 8 grand because of the vin saying its just a gt, and nor would anyone offer anything less than fair value. thats just my take on things,no harm intended.

    ~silver~
  8. '66 coupe

    '66 coupe Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Okay.

    So I'd like to see someone turn a V6 Mustang into a Cobra and sell it for as much or more than an original Cobra wuld sell for. Hell, while we're at it, make it a Cobra R at Cobra R prices.
  9. silverstangman

    silverstangman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    you missed my point. if you spend 20k in mods on a car that kelly blue book deemed being worth 10k without mods, no one in their right mind would sell it for only 10. you think all people slip into auctions so rich people can bid on their cars? no a vast majority of cars are sold thru newspapers and whatnot, people may research the vin to check on accident reports but that has no overall effect on how much someone pays for the car. and hell if you can find a cobra r motor and swap it into your car good luck.

    ~silver~
  10. '66 coupe

    '66 coupe Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    39

    This discussion isn't about mods making a car worth more than Kelly blue says it's worth. It's about whether or not a rebadged car is equal to an original. And my point is that even if they are equal in looks and performance, they are still not equal in value. So no, they are not equal.
    A clone/replicar, whatever you call it, will never get the respect the originals do. They may get respect as being nicely modified cars, but that's not exactly the same thing.
  11. UmmYeahOk

    UmmYeahOk New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    [QUOTE='66 coupe]So no, they are not equal.
    A clone/replicar, whatever you call it, will never get the respect the originals do. They may get respect as being nicely modified cars, but that's not exactly the same thing.[/QUOTE]

    That 10% of a classic mach won an award. Infact, 2 of the 6 identical brand new black bullets won awards. But what car gathered the biggest crowd? Not the restored stangs, not the stangs still with a sales sticker and fine pedigree, but the crappy little v6 94. It had more intrest, but won nothing because it was the only v6 at the show.

    I'm not as bitter about it as it may seem. Infact I plan to take the 6er to the show again this year. Even if it wins nothing, just that fact that more people enjoy looking at it rather than a row of brand new identicars with big macho engines is pretty cool.

    Oh yeah, and a car is only worth as much as it is to you. No matter how much money I've put in to it, I could only sell it for blue book value, which isnt all that much, and decreases as more time goes by. Which is why, its better to not sell things like this at all. No profit, no gain.
  12. Mean03V6

    Mean03V6 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    [QUOTE='66 coupe]This discussion isn't about mods making a car worth more than Kelly blue says it's worth. It's about whether or not a rebadged car is equal to an original. And my point is that even if they are equal in looks and performance, they are still not equal in value. So no, they are not equal.
    A clone/replicar, whatever you call it, will never get the respect the originals do. They may get respect as being nicely modified cars, but that's not exactly the same thing.[/QUOTE]


    That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it...however, I disagree. If someone builds a replicar and you can't tell that it's a replicar w/o checking the vin, then odds are they are going to get the same respect as someone with the original b/c they can successfully pass it off as an original. It's quite true that the replicar would not be equal in value, but if it's equal in terms of power, looks, etc. then it should be considered an equal. I personally have more respect for replicars than the originals b/c it takes a heck of a lot more work to build the car than to just be a rich mommy's boy and go buy the original. I don't know about where you guys live, but around here, we don't exactly run around running everyone's vin number to see if it's what the owner says it is. That's pretty hardcore research just to see if someone's claim is true or not. No harm, but that's just my 2 cents. :)
  13. '66 coupe

    '66 coupe Founding Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Hell, I'd give it an award too.
    If it's only 10% original, then that means A LOT of work had to go into the restoration. If all the new parts were NOS, then there's even more effort involved right there.


    Apparently you've never been to an MCA judged event.
  14. Stang2Man

    Stang2Man Founding Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Weren't the Saleen Mustangs delivered to cali with v6 engines and then hooked up by saleen with bigger engines and everything else needed to make em saleens?? I'm thinking I read that somewhere awhile back. because of so many more v6s produced compared to the GTs/Cobras
    The Mark VIII had the DOHC before the Cobras did, I do remember that hype for sure.
  15. 5-SpeedStallion

    5-SpeedStallion Founding Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    S-281's whether SCed, Extreme, or NA, were originally GT's or Cobra's (very rare). The only Saleens that were originally V6's are the S351's because they actually swap the engine, which is why it makes no sense to buy the more expensive GT just to swap nearly the only thing that makes it different than the V6.
  16. ChaosStarter

    ChaosStarter Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,671
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First off,yes all Saleen's start off as GT 'stangs. Every one will have a GT vin#. Yes, even the 281/-E, etc. The only ones that had the V6 were the s-351s/-E's. The engine's, trans, suspension, wheels, and a good amount of interior stuff is all ripped out and replaced by Saleen. However, only Saleen can confirm your VIN# as a real Saleen or not.


    As far as respect: Any older Pony/Muscle car that is resored will get my respect. I know how much blood/sweat/money goes into a restoration project. And yes, both cars can get the same amount of a crowd at a car show, but when you try to sell it, what do you think would get more money? Do you think the replicars are going for $30,000 to all the way to over $150,000?! Hell no, they'll go for $10-20,000 (AT THE VERY MOST!!!). No one would want a replicar over the real thing.

    Also, the Mark's did have the DOHC engine starting in '94 (I believe), then the Cobra's got them in '96. However, the same goes for the Lightning/F-150. They both have the 5.4L SOHC engine, so does that mean the regular F-150 can put a Lightning badge on it? Ugh.
  17. UmmYeahOk

    UmmYeahOk New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    [QUOTE='66 coupe]Hell, I'd give it an award too.
    If it's only 10% original, then that means A LOT of work had to go into the restoration. If all the new parts were NOS, then there's even more effort involved right there.
    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, I had no problem with it winning. You see, when you look at cars that are 30+ years old. Very few pieces on a car like that is original. The reason why I have no problem with it winning was because it is a classic. All classics win awards. And they should. All of them should. Because all went through hell to be restored... ...'cept that ellenor replica, they reopened the old dallas shelby mustang factory. lol, imagine having a 2004 fastback!

    Anyways, thats what win awards, classics win awards because they are beautiful due to restoration. Brand new cars win awards because theyre beautiful because the owner just bought it from the dealer. Well-kept 10 year old cars dont win awards, and especially not when its just a v6.

    Anyways, I was just using that 10% mach as an example of what actually is real and what is a replica.
  18. Alternator

    Alternator New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have yet to see a pony emblem on the 2003 cobras. Cobras all around!
  19. Pro-Hawk

    Pro-Hawk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    O Ya more 2.3T fans :D Check out this link to a 9 second 2.3T, its no where near stock even the block is not stock but its a street driver also ;) He said if you can't drive it on the street than its no fun :D

    http://hometown.aol.com/fourced/
  20. cobra232

    cobra232 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    since the 3.8 ford was loosly based or copied from the buick v6 there is no reason the ford can`t match 1/4 mile times posted by the buick. the ford has way better heads than the buick also. the quickest buick 6 i know of is 9.38@172

Share This Page