1966 C4 tranny not moving? Reverse ok.

[FLStang]

So I tore it open to see what's wrong, and found nothing.

I did replace the forward clutch seal rings. Old seals looked fine.

Oil pump gears were all in one piece. Checking clearance tomorrow maybe.

I may get a new set of thrust spacers, just in case. Old ones look ok though.

What else could it be? Worn bushings causing pressure loss?

Mind you, I still haven't been able to check system pressure, but I am now ready for it the next time I get the tranny in the car.


Getting frustrated.

Jan

 

[brianj5600]

Did you check end play?

 

[FLStang]

Did you check end play?

I did but not necessarily the right way. I think it was more or less within limits.
I will check again when I have it back together on the workbench.

I'll also check the pump for wear. I meant to do all that but by the time I got started working on it, the wife called and asked me to come home

Jan

 

[FLStang]

Checked end play with feeler gauges, it was over .050

The #1 thrust washer was almost perfect, hardly any wear and it mic'ed out 90 thou. A new one I ordered was listed as 89thou. Close enough

The #2 thrust washer however was worn down to .057, vs. .072 of a new one, which I also ordered... should get them today.

So I'm looking at eliminating near 15 thou with just one new washer. It still leaves some free play, but it will fall within spec.
I wonder if I could use some kind of filler spacer behind it to get even more...

Jan

 

[brianj5600]

The #2 is the main one since it sets end play for everything but the direct drum. What # is on the backside of the #2 thrust? The #1 thrust only sets clearance for the direct drum. It should not change end play, only the float of the direct drum. It sounds like you are trying to increase the #1 thrust to help control end play on the forward drum, which is acrually the second one back. Here is some good info on setting end play http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/c4-transmissions/setting-the-endplay_56569.html?word=end+float I did mine like Gregaust did. Get the #2 right with the direct drum remove. And set the #1 on the work bench with out it in the trans.

 

[FLStang]

I noticed that the small thrust had taken all the beating, judging by the wear marks on it, and the larger fiber or plastic washer had virtually no wear marks. So I tried to mess with the both of them to get them equally tight. I suppose I was kind of on the right track there. With the parts I had available, I got the end play down to 0.029", well within acceptable limits, actually pretty much in the middle of the range. Not perfect, but acceptable.

I will however re-check things the way described on the page you linked. THANKS!

The number on the back of the small washer is '2'.

My parts source did not have different size washers available, and in fact I didn't even get a #2 when the parts arrived. Weird. I may have to call them again.
I did fabricate a thin filler washer to go under the #2, to gain some "tickness", so I'd learn how it affects everything. It did what I wanted, reduced the end play. It was a shadetree trick which I don't particularly like, but it worked for testing purposes.. it may even be good enough to run.. At least long enough for me to save money and buy another transmission, something that can take a beating. (A professionally built high performance unit). I am tempted to go manual even...

Still, my original question remains lurking in the background: After all this fine tuning to set the end play, will I have forward gears? Will it have such huge impact that it would bring back enough fluid pressure to engage the clutch? Or am I wasting time perfecting something that is nice to have, but has nothing to do with the actual problem I have?

The next time I have the engine in, I will be able to test fluid pressure too.

If the damn thing still doesn't work, I will likely give up and let the car sit some more, and just buy another transmission some day. We don't even have the title for it.

Jan

 

[brianj5600]

I think you have another problem. Sorry for distracting you, but when I posted about end play I was experiencing similar symptoms and trying to fix it. I found some stuck valves in the VB. With the forward clutcheswearing out originally, you likely have some stuck valves in the Valvebody too, again speculation. I am learning still too. I would post on the forum I linked you to in previous post. Those guys are very helpful.

 

[FLStang]

I did take the VB apart and cleaned it real good this time around, and I think I found one or two pieces stuck. Everything seems to move freely now.
I didn't go as deep the last time, didn't know there were more moving parts deeper inside.. since they wouldn't come out with a magnet the first time I cleaned it Now I'm positive I got everything out and cleaned.

Jan

 

[FLStang]

I shimmed the two thrust bearings so there would be minimal play between the two, plus reduced the play between the sun gear assy and the big drum thingy.
I think I got it pretty much where I want it. I ended up using VW Beetle flywheel shims behind the large plastic thrust washer at the pump end. They are available in various thicknesses and I stacked 3 of them behind the plastic ring to achieve very close tolerance, without binding.

Oh yea, I'm primarily an airhead... aircooled VW freak taking side steps into Mustangs

I also found two stretched bellhousing (pump) bolts, and replaced those.
Then I looked at the respective two bolt holes in the case, they felt weird when torquing the bolts down. Sure enough, the threads would not hold higher torque properly, they had started to strip in 2 holes. I drilled them out and installed helicoils. That'll teach them

It's ready to go back in.

I'm afraid to do it now.

Jan

 

[FLStang]

Update:

The tranny still won't engage.

I give up.

Wife lost her job last week too, so no money for parts. I got her Nova done though, it's purring nicely.

The mustang will be parked for the time being, and the next thing I'm going to do is buy a new transmission. I'm done with this piece of turd. (That has everything new inside by now).
Of course that means we will first have to get the title and tags and insurance and.... I'm not plonking any more money on a car that has no title.


Thank you for your help everyone, I'm signing off until further notice.


Jan