Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

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#4,342
Mike's conversation with Monster later tonight

I am rubber, you are glue, whatever you break and throw at me :thinking:, :bang: bounces off me and I sticks itz to you. :leaving:
 
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#4,343
Here's me, talking to the woods....

Found my headlight adjusting screw insert.....Apparently it happens enough that Dorman makes a replacement
61Ah1TfA84L._SL1500_.jpg


So,.....yea,..no need to break out the JB weld.

In case I haven't said it,...Steve @a91what is one of those guys. One that has an entire life of his own w/ wife and family, as well as a project that should burn up his time, and make it in short supply for anybody else.

Yet he manages to help anybody that asks him. All without ever asking something in return.

I'm thinkin, in lieu of me finding my Dorman piece that I'm gonna go buy 3 gallons of Premium, and restart the Monster tomorrow. The main reason for that will be to see where the oil leak is, (If I can even verify that). In consideration of that Steve has once again responded to my request for cyber-assistance, and will watch my engine run, and make adjustments to it in real time from the confines of his chair.. (Isn't technology a good thing?)

It comes down to the real nitty gritty here guys,.........I only have trim to black out, and pop on,..wheels to detail, (add my gold stripe) and bolt on, finish wiring the rear cyclone light,...and install my yet to be purchased sway bar end links,.............and if I can find and fix the leak..............dare I say it?........The Monster is drive-able.:eek:

Ohh,....don't let me forget....(because forgetting this will be a real BAD thing)......I have to install the hood catch, and figure out how I'm gonna run the factory release cable so i can get it open. BEFORE I try to drive it.

**I'm writing this down so that I wont forget, more than telling you.

So then,...Sunday could be epic,...or just another day in my life. I know it's gonna be a beautiful day out w/ no chance of rain. It hasn't rained one drop here in almost 10 weeks and there is no rain in the forecast anytime soon. The problem with that is that I cant wash the Monster,..and he's filthy. .We're in a stage 3 drought, soon to move to into water rationing if it doesn't start raining real soon.

But not on Sunday,...still 80 degrees low fall humidity,....perfect dirty Monster weather.
 
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#4,346
Wow. I've missed a ton since the last time I was on here. Congratulations on the interior Mike. It's looking great. I'm really looking forward to the day it rolls out of the garage on its own power.

The delay in surgery is unfortunate but I hope it works out soon. At least it gives you a chance to hopefully ride around in the monster for a bit.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
#4,347
Well....brick wall.

I attempt to start the car this morning,..and it wont.

It cranks but I get nothing.

I stop and check for missing fuses, they're there. I check my electrical connections they seem good. I try three separate times,....3 second bursts,...nothing.

Just as I'm figuring I got something dead,..I try it one more time and it starts. It's running at 1200 RPM because the fast idle valve is open, and it's surging slightly,..but it's running. I shut it off. I'll wait till the afternoon to have Steve look in and make sure I don't F something up.

So I dink around.

I mount the hood latch,...I install the air filter, I run the latch release cable.

I put the car on a charger, put 4 gallons of gas in it, and leave to go run some errands, confident that I'm gonna have a running car this afternoon. It's all good.

This afternoon at 4 I hook up w/ Steve,...I get him online and watch as he moves through my computer (that's sitting on a bench at the front of the garage,...the bluetooth works perfectly). He activates a datalog,...he enables the auto tune for the warm up enrichment,...and I start it. I don't even have to talk to him,..it's simply a matter of A,B,C.

The car starts immediately,....it's surging, but it appears that the auto tune is starting to make it behave. Maybe at one minute in post start, It dies.

Like somebody unplugged it. No stumble like it was running out of gas,...just "Click!" it stops.

When I attempt to restart it I have no more fuel pump prime. The fuse is good but there is no voltage there. Nor at the pump.

I'm completely stopped as dead as the engine is. I have no freakin clue how to even start trouble shooting this thing. I don't know if it's the ECU, or the relay board. The only thing I'm sure of is that it is more that just the pump, given that it stopped so abruptly.

God Damn it!!!!
 
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#4,350
Mike, belated congrats on the excellent interior! My 14 year old was also impressed.
madmike1157 said:
In case I haven't said it,...Steve @a91what is one of those guys. One that has an entire life of his own w/ wife and family, as well as a project that should burn up his time, and make it in short supply for anybody else.

Yet he manages to help anybody that asks him. All without ever asking something in return.

I'm thinkin, in lieu of me finding my Dorman piece that I'm gonna go buy 3 gallons of Premium, and restart the Monster tomorrow. The main reason for that will be to see where the oil leak is, (If I can even verify that). In consideration of that Steve has once again responded to my request for cyber-assistance, and will watch my engine run, and make adjustments to it in real time from the confines of his chair.. (Isn't technology a good thing?)
Click to expand...
You've probably already asked Steve @a91what what the data log showed, but for the rest of us...any useful information, helpful clues to the shutdown and non-starting, or did the data cut off with the engine?
I have no doubt you and he will figure it out, but the frustration has to be infuriating. You do superior work, and I'm sure it will pay off.
madmike1157 said:
This afternoon at 4 I hook up w/ Steve,...I get him online and watch as he moves through my computer (that's sitting on a bench at the front of the garage,...the bluetooth works perfectly). He activates a datalog,...he enables the auto tune for the warm up enrichment,...and I start it. I don't even have to talk to him,..it's simply a matter of A,B,C.

The car starts immediately,....it's surging, but it appears that the auto tune is starting to make it behave. Maybe at one minute in post start, It dies.

Like somebody unplugged it. No stumble like it was running out of gas,...just "Click!" it stops.

When I attempt to restart it I have no more fuel pump prime. The fuse is good but there is no voltage there. Nor at the pump.

I'm completely stopped as dead as the engine is. I have no freakin clue how to even start trouble shooting this thing. I don't know if it's the ECU, or the relay board. The only thing I'm sure of is that it is more that just the pump, given that it stopped so abruptly.
Click to expand...
OK, simplistic question: Do you have power everywhere? Obviously not at the fuel pump prime circuit, but are any other curcuits out? How hard is it to remove the MS unit and attach it to the mock-up test system you had it on way back when?
And kudos to Steve @a91what.
 
#4,351
dr. Dan W. said:
Mike, belated congrats on the excellent interior! My 14 year old was also impressed.

You've probably already asked Steve @a91what what the data log showed, but for the rest of us...any useful information, helpful clues to the shutdown and non-starting, or did the data cut off with the engine?
I have no doubt you and he will figure it out, but the frustration has to be infuriating. You do superior work, and I'm sure it will pay off.

OK, simplistic question: Do you have power everywhere? Obviously not at the fuel pump prime circuit, but are any other curcuits out? How hard is it to remove the MS unit and attach it to the mock-up test system you had it on way back when?
And kudos to Steve @a91what.
Click to expand...
The datalog continued until I turned the key to off. At 249 seconds the RPM falls off a cliff and the Map jumps straight through the roof (as it should) the other sensors continue to register as long as the log runs (i.e the coolant temp continues to rise..)

I have emails, w/ attached tune/datalog files sent to the less than helpful folks at DIY.. (I'll get they typical one line reply from them sometime this afternoon) So, I'll wait and see if they can give me direction
 
#4,352
madmike1157 said:
The datalog continued until I turned the key to off. At 249 seconds the RPM falls off a cliff and the Map jumps straight through the roof (as it should) the other sensors continue to register as long as the log runs (i.e the coolant temp continues to rise..)

I have emails, w/ attached tune/datalog files sent to the less than helpful folks at DIY.. (I'll get they typical one line reply from them sometime this afternoon) So, I'll wait and see if they can give me direction
Click to expand...
The guy who posts as "Stinger" in Steve's MS thread may be more useful than the other folks you mentioned and may be worth pinging in that thread or sending a PM to.
 
#4,354
Matt Cramer responded already. He said
"Ok, we will need to figure out just how dead this thing is." (perfect)

He wanted to know if it will connect to Tuner studio (it does) He wants to see a cranking datalog. (I'll have to do that tonight when I get home)
He also wants to know if I have 5v on V ref (wherever the hell that is).

So,.....yeah..
 
#4,355
On the subject of fuel pumps, does the fuel pump circuit have an inertia switch in it?
The inertia switch needs to be present and working so that if you have a collision that it shuts of the fuel pump to prevent a roaring fire.
I certainly hope that it does have a functional inertia switch. I would hate to see you and the 'Monster on the evening news because of an accident and subsequent fire.
 
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#4,356
jrichker said:
On the subject of fuel pumps, does the fuel pump circuit have an inertia switch in it?
The inertia switch needs to be present and working so that if you have a collision that it shuts of the fuel pump to prevent a roaring fire.
I certainly hope that it does have a functional inertia switch. I would hate to see you and the 'Monster on the evening news because of an accident and subsequent fire.
Click to expand...
And in response to that, it does not. "In the event of a collision" the Monster will be irretrievably salvageable save for the stuff that can be unbolted from it. It is like every other car that I have built however, none of which had an inertia switch. To me,...call me irresponsible,... but in the face of a crushed rear end, and the resulting damage that will ensue..I'd just as soon have him burn to the ground at the stated value I'm gonna cover him at. I cannot imagine trying to fix the bodywork after all of this.
 
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#4,357
madmike1157 said:
And in response to that, it does not. "In the event of a collision" the Monster will be irretrievably salvageable save for the stuff that can be unbolted from it. It is like every other car that I have built however, none of which had an inertia switch. To me,...call me irresponsible,... but in the face of a crushed rear end, and the resulting damage that will ensue..I'd just as soon have him burn to the ground at the stated value I'm gonna cover him at. I cannot imagine trying to fix the bodywork after all of this.
Click to expand...

The Monster is replaceable, but you aren't - there is only one madmike1157.
I'm sure that your family would agree with that.

Joe R.
 
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#4,359
So,.....in trying to find out what my problem with my engine, I stumble upon a likely culprit. Every test I make checks out. At the FP relay, I've got voltage. At the relay board FP output I have voltage, but I get no pump prime.
When checking the pump itself,..I check the thing for loose terminals, and they are tight, but the studs themselves act like they are loose. (I can move them w/ my fingers). I have #2 turn the key, while I ck the voltage at the pump, and no sooner did he turn the key, the stinkin pump primes.

The car starts after some cranking.

I talk to Steve, and he has me datalog the warm up enrichment, but almost like before, the engine runs for about 4 minutes and dies like it is unplugged.

You turn the key. You get nothin. You dick with the connections, the pump primes.

So,....what do we have here? WE GOTTA DEFECTIVE PUMP!!!
Here's the really good part:

I bought the thing from Summit 2.yr/7mo ago. It has exactly 20 total minutes run time on it. It is out of warranty, No longer made, and Mallory has been assimilated.

The "Borg" in this instance is MSD. Mallory is now a acquisition of MSD, and MSD tells me that they are not even rebuilding these things.

I have a 220.00 throw-a-way.

There now. Now that that is all behind me, Summit has offered to discount the new pump by a whole whopping 20%.
 
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#4,360
madmike1157 said:
So,.....in trying to find out what my problem with my engine, I stumble upon a likely culprit. Every test I make checks out. At the FP relay, I've got voltage. At the relay board FP output I have voltage, but I get no pump prime.
When checking the pump itself,..I check the thing for loose terminals, and they are tight, but the studs themselves act like they are loose. (I can move them w/ my fingers). I have #2 turn the key, while I ck the voltage at the pump, and no sooner did he turn the key, the stinkin pump primes.

The car starts after some cranking.

I talk to Steve, and he has me datalog the warm up enrichment, but almost like before, the engine runs for about 4 minutes and dies like it is unplugged.

You turn the key. You get nothin. You dick with the connections, the pump primes.

So,....what do we have here? WE GOTTA DEFECTIVE PUMP!!!
Here's the really good part:

I bought the thing from Summit 2.yr/7mo ago. It has exactly 20 total minutes run time on it. It is out of warranty, No longer made, and Mallory has been assimilated.

The "Borg" in this instance is MSD. Mallory is now a acquisition of MSD, and MSD tells me that they are not even rebuilding these things.

I have a 220.00 throw-a-way.

There now. Now that that is all behind me, Summit has offered to discount the new pump by a whole whopping 20%.
Click to expand...
Ugh. That's a kick to the sack. I know its not the point of the matter, but perhaps a walboro this time?
 
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