1rwhp per c.i. = streetable. True or False Thread.
- Thread starter Pokageek
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Shamus O'toole
New Member
For me absolutley True. I have 408 RWHP N/A out of a 327. I can drive it anyplace I like, runs cool,decent street manners, and pump gas.
bill302
Active Member
true.. 2rwhp per c.i. = streetable 
over 3x ci just watch the video below...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YtxfbxGz1u4
over 3x ci just watch the video below...http://youtube.com/watch?v=YtxfbxGz1u4
Shamus O'toole
New Member
Personally I don't post up dyno sheets or even print them out (I have access to a Dynojet2000 anytime I want and only use it as a tuning tool) But if you realy want to see it i can e-mail you a copy. No BS here. All I realy care about are ET's. Runs 11.02@124. Now don't get me wrong everybody has there own def. of a street car. It's not a DD. But I do drive it to car shows but it gets trailered to the track. Its also a twister, I shift at 7200RPM. So you can imagine the cam specs. I cruise at 3200rpm with a 4:30 gear.
Nice pump gas street car you got there, sounds similar to mine.
Anything over 1hp/cube being not so streetable = false.
The further you distinguish from the 1 rwhp per cube, you will typically get less and less streetable.
A couple things to keep in mind:
There is a difference between a street car and a daily driver.
There is a difference between highway driving and city driving.
There is a difference when you have another mode of transportation. It makes dealing with the 'street car', much easier.
And in the end, streetability differs from person to person and location to location.
Here in the southern region, I think it isn't 'streetable' to not have a/c. I think it is unstreetable to have low vacuum at idle. I think it is unstreetable not to have a sway bar. And the list goes on...
A couple things to keep in mind:
There is a difference between a street car and a daily driver.
There is a difference between highway driving and city driving.
There is a difference when you have another mode of transportation. It makes dealing with the 'street car', much easier.
And in the end, streetability differs from person to person and location to location.
Here in the southern region, I think it isn't 'streetable' to not have a/c. I think it is unstreetable to have low vacuum at idle. I think it is unstreetable not to have a sway bar. And the list goes on...
Nice pump gas street car you got there, sounds similar to mine.
Anything over 1hp/cube being not so streetable = false.
Except for the fact that you shift 4-500 rpm less, don't go to car shows with it, and you say you cruise at 2,500-2,700 rpm, not 3200, and his car traps near 10 mph faster than yours.
Yeah, just busting your chops
Shamus - Aftermarket block?
Shamus O'toole
New Member
See everyones def. is differant. Not having A/C dosen't bother me a bit. Nor does power steering, or power brakes. Hell I drive it with a spool to!! I did run the True Steet challange at the last NMRA event at Bradenton. 30 mile cruise with 3 back to back runs. Never opened the hood. Didn't do so well cause I never tuned the suspension for DR's.
You hit the nail on the head, we all are different for different reasons.
The humidity down here kills me, Florida would be bareable in my opinion. A few vacations down there, I don't mind it to much, the beach might help with that
Do you use a B50, R302, DART, etc. aftermarket block? Just curious...
Shamus O'toole
New Member
stock block with main girdle and valley girdle.
Poka I see what your saying and yes my ride leans more towards a track car.
Poka I see what your saying and yes my ride leans more towards a track car.
Shamus O'toole
New Member
my power curve is very high. At the time I was running a Victor 5.0. The combo has changed alot since then....went carb so my streetability has gone waaaaaaay down!!LOL New #'s are better but I'm not done yet. Plus those are the N/A numbers........ nitrous numbers to come. Then the Man O war block goes in.
WHITE94COBRA
New Member
69clark
Founding Member
Well, I think that this question, used to be the case more often than not. However as time goes by I think the ratio is much higher. I mean just think about it, the factory is putting more than 1 hp per ci in aloto of cars now! The factory is not going to build and sell cars that aren't streetable!
That statement right here proves that the statement above is false.
That statement right here proves that the statement above is false.
Examples?
I'm sure there are some out there...
I know the 05 Mustang GT's dyno in the 255-265rwhp, with 281 cubic inches. So less than 1rwhp per cube.
I know the ls1 would run in the 290-310rwhp, with 346 cubic inches. So less than 1rwhp per cube.
From the factory also gets a distinct advantage in driveability with a superior tune and extremely well match parts with 1000's of hours of engineering...
True but remeber a lot of new cars are also running around without push rods and use OHCs. They have a smoother valve train set up compared to the push rod era.
OK Folks ... this one is gonna be long 
but
Thats just how it is
I've shared the 1 rwhp/1 ci rule of thumb thing on here many times
I've also said as you move above the 1 to 1 ratio ........
you will start to suffer with drivability issues
Here is where I wanna frame my statements
and
They are based upon my findings with the following things in place:
1) OEM block ... the pan has never been off my GT
2) Naturally Aspirated Combo
3) Self Tuned by Tweecer
The focus with my 95 GT has been on a STREET APPLICATION
A few of my goals were:
a) 300 SAE rwhp peak
b) 300 SAE rwtq or better from very low to the upper end of rpm range
c) All emissions equipment in place and in good working order
d) All accessories in place and in good working order
e) No drivability issues such as bucking, surging, stalling, etc
As for goal a) ... I fell a bit short
I've upgraded the tb & maf
I do feel I've made it to 300 but haven't been back to the dyno
I do wanna make it very clear my combo drives like a little stocker
Stang in every way except it has more power and lopes a good
bit at idle ... but .... it is a consistent & stable lope
The above is my definition of a Street Car with all options in place
I also wanna focus on the torque curve
which for me was a M U S T have kinda thing :Word:
Also ... I wanna point out my stipulation of using a SAE dyno cal is what
I feel to be of great importance.
Several years ago ... almost all dyno pulls were caled with that method
As time passed on ... you now see more and more done with the STD cal
which usually produces results that are higher in value than the SAE cal.
Now ... that you have a clearer understanding of what I was
able to accomplish with my little GT
Let me say I ain't trying to brag
but
Show what can be done with ........
some help with the selection of combo parts ... Thank you Ed C
and
the optimization of the pcm ... Thank you Tweecer
Lets mention a few things I've seen from other combos
Its all about application and goals
Some of the time ...
Its just not fair to try and lump em all in the same group
Quick Example
Lets talk about a purpose built, blueprinted and balanced short block.
I feel that has got to be good for around 10 rwhp as it is more efficient
than the OEM sb as built from Ford
Having said that ... see how a guy with a b&bed 306 is not really in
the same category as the OEM blocked combo as he starts out with
around a 14rwhp advantage
I WILL NOT consider those combos that have
very soft low ends
are more at home on a track than street
don't have all accessories
OR
any other compromises to gain higher dyno results
AND
do not meet my above guidelines
Peeps who have combos that fall outside of those guidelines
certainly could drive their cars on the street and call their
combos a ... Street Car
I got no prob with combos like that
They just are not in the same category as I am IMHO
and
I've not had the opportunity to see how effective I could tune one
OK NOW ... Lets shift gears here and talk about more than 1 to 1
I said you will see drivability start to suffer
The following ... speculation ...........
is based upon my my findings from working with my 95 GT
so
Please understand I've not actually done what I'm about to lay out here ...
I feel you could take a combo as I described in the above guide lines
1-3 and go to around 350rwhp with drivability still ... pretty good.
The key things would be more aggressive cam
and
an intake with more flow
HOWEVER
Most likely gonna have to lope a bit more at idle
Most likely gonna have to give up a tiny bit of low end tq maybe not
Lastly ... I'd like to mention a few things about drivability
I wanna first say I could not have gotten the results I did without
the ability to access the pcm with my Tweecer :Word:
I was able to work on issues ... one by one
until
They were A L L gone
Folks ... my cam was cut with a lsa of 109 degrees
For several years now ... and ... still to this day .......
Peeps say cams with low lsa's just won't work with a 94-95 pcm
I have seen some say they got a chip burned by a Pro and it is good
but
It still does this or that
I suspect ... some or all of that ... could be dealt with by more time
spent with the car ... but ... that is one B I G difference between the
two methods of tuning.
A guy like me who is setup to self tune can spend more time to work
out issues like that and a Pro can only do so much with the time you
are willing to pay him.
No doubt about
WOT tuning is cake
compared to
Tuning for drivability issues
Well ... I hope I've cleared up some stuff I've said in the past
and
AS ALWAYS ... I've made someone ... somewhere ... think ... Hummm
Any comments are welcome
and
If I need to be more specific on something I said ... just speak up
Grady
but
Thats just how it is
I've shared the 1 rwhp/1 ci rule of thumb thing on here many times
I've also said as you move above the 1 to 1 ratio ........
you will start to suffer with drivability issues
Here is where I wanna frame my statements
and
They are based upon my findings with the following things in place:
1) OEM block ... the pan has never been off my GT
2) Naturally Aspirated Combo
3) Self Tuned by Tweecer
The focus with my 95 GT has been on a STREET APPLICATION
A few of my goals were:
a) 300 SAE rwhp peak
b) 300 SAE rwtq or better from very low to the upper end of rpm range
c) All emissions equipment in place and in good working order
d) All accessories in place and in good working order
e) No drivability issues such as bucking, surging, stalling, etc
As for goal a) ... I fell a bit short
I've upgraded the tb & maf
I do feel I've made it to 300 but haven't been back to the dyno
I do wanna make it very clear my combo drives like a little stocker
Stang in every way except it has more power and lopes a good
bit at idle ... but .... it is a consistent & stable lope
The above is my definition of a Street Car with all options in place
I also wanna focus on the torque curve
which for me was a M U S T have kinda thing :Word:
Also ... I wanna point out my stipulation of using a SAE dyno cal is what
I feel to be of great importance.
Several years ago ... almost all dyno pulls were caled with that method
As time passed on ... you now see more and more done with the STD cal
which usually produces results that are higher in value than the SAE cal.
Now ... that you have a clearer understanding of what I was
able to accomplish with my little GT
Let me say I ain't trying to brag
but
Show what can be done with ........
some help with the selection of combo parts ... Thank you Ed C
and
the optimization of the pcm ... Thank you Tweecer
Lets mention a few things I've seen from other combos
Its all about application and goals
Some of the time ...
Its just not fair to try and lump em all in the same group
Quick Example
Lets talk about a purpose built, blueprinted and balanced short block.
I feel that has got to be good for around 10 rwhp as it is more efficient
than the OEM sb as built from Ford
Having said that ... see how a guy with a b&bed 306 is not really in
the same category as the OEM blocked combo as he starts out with
around a 14rwhp advantage
I WILL NOT consider those combos that have
very soft low ends
are more at home on a track than street
don't have all accessories
OR
any other compromises to gain higher dyno results
AND
do not meet my above guidelines
Peeps who have combos that fall outside of those guidelines
certainly could drive their cars on the street and call their
combos a ... Street Car
I got no prob with combos like that
They just are not in the same category as I am IMHO
and
I've not had the opportunity to see how effective I could tune one
OK NOW ... Lets shift gears here and talk about more than 1 to 1
I said you will see drivability start to suffer
The following ... speculation ...........
is based upon my my findings from working with my 95 GT
so
Please understand I've not actually done what I'm about to lay out here ...
I feel you could take a combo as I described in the above guide lines
1-3 and go to around 350rwhp with drivability still ... pretty good.
The key things would be more aggressive cam
and
an intake with more flow
HOWEVER
Most likely gonna have to lope a bit more at idle
Most likely gonna have to give up a tiny bit of low end tq
maybe not Lastly ... I'd like to mention a few things about drivability
I wanna first say I could not have gotten the results I did without
the ability to access the pcm with my Tweecer :Word:
I was able to work on issues ... one by one
until
They were A L L gone
Folks ... my cam was cut with a lsa of 109 degrees
For several years now ... and ... still to this day .......
Peeps say cams with low lsa's just won't work with a 94-95 pcm
I have seen some say they got a chip burned by a Pro and it is good
but
It still does this or that
I suspect ... some or all of that ... could be dealt with by more time
spent with the car ... but ... that is one B I G difference between the
two methods of tuning.
A guy like me who is setup to self tune can spend more time to work
out issues like that and a Pro can only do so much with the time you
are willing to pay him.
No doubt about
WOT tuning is cake
compared to
Tuning for drivability issues
Well ... I hope I've cleared up some stuff I've said in the past
and
AS ALWAYS ... I've made someone ... somewhere ... think ... Hummm
Any comments are welcome
and
If I need to be more specific on something I said ... just speak up
Grady
