24 lb injectors??

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by GaryB, Aug 25, 2007.

  1. GaryB

    GaryB New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Flordia
    Well I want to upgrade to 24lb injectors and calibrated maf. What do I need to look for when buying these parts, I read about red top blue top etc. What is the diff. I want to do a plug and play not alot of other mods such as harness or fuel rail modification. Anyone got any pointers? The car is a 93 5.0 5speed coupe.
    Gary B.
     
    #1
  2. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,671
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Location:
    Seattle
    larger injectors and MAF are plug and play, assuming you select the right parts...

    The harness and fuel rails won't need to be touched.

    contact PMAS or ProM or whatever the new company name is this week...
    They will have the right meter for you.



    Another option for running 24's is to switch to the 93 Cobra ecu, MAF, and injectors.
    This option is more expensive, but will not result in ANY drivability issues, as cal'd MAF meters sometimes will.


    jason
     
    #2
  3. cenok is family

    cenok is family Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Norman, Ok
    blue top is 24#, red i believe is 30#
     
    #3
  4. GaryB

    GaryB New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Flordia
    I tried to purchase cobra ecu with injectors on this site classified section but can't get replies from the seller. next option is used and or rebuilt injectors and a matching maf possibly not from the same seller. any brands to stay away from??
    Wish I could contact the seller of the cobra stuff!! been trying for a while.
     
    #4
  5. Flo331

    Flo331 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Orlando, FL.
    When buying injectors please never buy used you can get burned on this.....just to put your car back together to find out one of your injectors is fouled out. Also I would not use 24's due to there spray pattern I just don't like how there spray pattern is...if I were you just get 30lbs they are not that big of a step-up and still very very street-able and will also get the job done and you can have room to grow. And yes, you HAVE to get a matching mass air meter calibrated for you injector size. For this PMAS (used to be called ProM) is a very good company to work with.
     
    #5
  6. lvboost

    lvboost New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    mass
    when buying the injecters make sure that they are ford motorsport injecters because the bosh injecters have a diffrent spray pattern.
     
    #6
  7. Black1987Stang

    Black1987Stang Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    37
    Location:
    Jersey Shore
    I don't know the difference but what's wrong with bosch's spray pattern? what is the difference?
     
    #7
  8. lvboost

    lvboost New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    mass
    the ford injecters have a diffrent spray pattern that other injecters cant flow because ford has the patent
     
    #8
  9. Tubo(2-bo)

    Tubo(2-bo) Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ft Walton Beach FL.
    The Cobra ecu has lookup tables for 24lb injectors using, the 19lb calibrated 70 mm. Cobra MAF. Same MAF module as stock HO. If you go to larger injectors, the Cobra ecu is no longer using valid lookup tables.
     
    #9
  10. 65ShelbyClone

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2000
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Location:
    Antelope Valley, SoCal
    I also want to know why the Boschs have a "bad" spray pattern compared to the FMSs which ironically are a Bosch design.
     
    #10
  11. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,671
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Location:
    Seattle
    The bold comments are flat out wrong
    The HO and X3Z have different MAS sensors. The part numbers are different.

    I am not sure what you are getting at with the italic comments...
    Maybe you can elaborate by mentioning ALL the parts you are discussing?





    The only injector difference I am aware of has to do with the pintle and cap.
    Some Ford injectors don't have a pintle cap.
    Some Ford injectors have a 1-hole pintle cap.
    Some Ford injectors have a 4-hole pintle cap.

    Obviously the pintle cap design (or lack thereof) will affect spray patterns...


    jason
     
    #11
  12. ninety15.0

    ninety15.0 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ford injectors are a bosch design....i used to work for Bosch as an injector engineer.
     
    #12
  13. Repostyle

    Repostyle Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I hear a lot of people saying stay away from C&L MAS's, but I can't agree with that as I have had no complaints about mine.

    I also can't elaborate on why people should not use C&L because the one's saying stay away are not saying why.
     
    #13
  14. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,817
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    DFW Texas
    I used to be one of the most passionate peeps who would say :D

    "C&L meters are a POS and don't waste your money on one" :Word:

    The main phrase in that statement is ... used to say ;)

    Allow me to give a perspective as one who has been in the self tuning thing since
    it was just getting started and nobody really knew much about doing it :)

    My reason for wanting to give you the brief history lesson is ....

    So you can see how many peeps came to feel that way in the past
    and
    So you can see how info in the past that was once true and valid
    sometimes
    Can no longer be all that accurate :bang:
    or only ... partially true :eek:

    Years ago ... many thought tuning was ...
    twisting the dizzy and upping the fuel pressure

    You can only do that for so long until you need a new meter to deal with the
    additional fuel needs (bigger inj's) mods such as h/c/i and the like produce.

    The whole deal of buying a meter that is calibrated for a certain size inj
    which was invented by the aftermarket meter manufactures can have its
    share of undesirable issues ... but back then ... not many were doing what
    we call ... tuning ... which these days we know is a self tuning interface
    or having a Pro burn a chip.

    ProM and C&L were mostly the only game in town back then :eek:
    and
    It was no secret :nono:

    Peeps just had better luck with the ProM meters :Word:

    Now ... so much for making an aftermarket meter work without a tune

    Lets bring in the newly formed self tuning community
    and
    Lets see how they found differences between the two meters :scratch:

    First of all ... a ProM meter would be delivered with a sheet showing the test
    results of how the meter preformed :nice:

    The C&L had no test results provided :notnice:
    and
    If you called C&L ... you got a rude reply of ... "Why would you want that?" :fuss:

    This data was ... and still to this day ... is a good thing to have when you are
    starting to dial in your maf transfer curve that is gonna be a custom kinda thing
    for your particular combo if you are a self tuner type of guy.

    Are you starting to see how ... the C&L meter was quickly loosing credibility ;)

    Back then ... The old ProM metal case 77mm meter was very accurate
    and
    You rarely saw peeps on the boards say anything bad about them

    What you saw over and over was peeps saying ...

    "I was having all kinds of issues with drivability"
    "I moved from my C&L to a ProM and things now are great"

    Its hard to recover from talk like that :Word:

    Then again ... things started to slowly change for the better :banana:

    After the word got around about that ...
    C&L started to have a different attitude :nice:

    They then started to make data available
    well
    Somewhat you might say :rlaugh:
    but
    It was a start never the less

    Then ... over time ...
    As the self tuning community gained more and more knowledge ...

    Pretty good curves for the C&L meters were hacked out :nice:
    and
    They were shared between the community members :D
    So
    C&L kinda got a ... default benefit ... from that kinda thing don't ya see ;)

    C&L made some changes several years ago with more models available
    and
    Slowly ... peeps on the boards started to give good reports
    so
    I suspect ... the quality was improved with the newer units :)

    Now to the present ...

    I gotta say some of the most knowledgeable self tuning peeps I know run C&L
    meters and have good things to say about them.

    So ... there you have it :D

    Yes ... A C&L meter can be a pos
    but
    It doesn't necessarily have to be a pos

    See how you gotta be careful about what info you take to heart :rlaugh:

    Any of that stuff allow you to see ... Why ... I once felt like I did :D

    Grady
     
    #14
  15. mustangfan1990

    mustangfan1990 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Lenoir, North Carolina
    I bought a ECU for a cobra from Autozone worked out great and it was cheap
     
    #15
  16. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,671
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Location:
    Seattle
    All I can provide is the reasons I don't like C&L meters...

    1.
    The 'calibration' method leaves much to be desired. You are swapping a stock sensor (which has inherent signal variation), into an aftermarket housing (which will also have some variation), and then forcing a small *sample* of air through a 'Sample Tube' (which probably introduces the most variation of the 3).
    If you buy a ProM, PMas, or stock Ford meter... this stack up of variation is greatly reduced. These 3 styles of meters throw the meter on a flow bench and modify the sensor until it reads properly. This is the RIGHT way to calibrate a meter.
    (the biggest source of error that seems to come from this type of calibration is the variation due to installation setup in the actual car. This variation will vary from vehicle to vehicle though... Not much we can do about it.... unless a J3 tuner is used...)

    2.
    The sample tube is located on the outer wall of the meter. This can cause issues with getting consitant airflow over the sensor. The ProM, Pmas, and Ford meters all do a better job of getting a representative measurement of the air that is passing through the entire diameter of the housing.
    Think of the 'Other 3' meters as a bird watcher looking out a VERY large window to see hundreds of birds. Think of the C&L meter as a birdwatcher looking through a 1in hole in the wall to see the same hundreds of birds. The C&L birdwatcher will have to position himself just right in front of that hole in order to see what the other birdwatcher can see with relative ease. Even with great care though, the C&L birdwatcher will never get the full view compared to the 'Other 3' birdwatchers.

    This item is also why C&L meters will sometimes require clocking in order to calm idle control issues, etc...


    3.
    C&L has been known to send the wrong sample tube, or otherwise provide bad info. I have recieved sample tubes from them that were not color coded properly, and others that were not color coded at all.
    Also, they have instructed me to run a 'different' calibration tube, compared to what their calibration page called out, because I had a 408w stroker.
    I still don't see the logic in that... and they are still telling others similar things.




    Grady is correct on several points, and aftermarket tuners have made using a C&L meter easier.
    However, I still had 'tune' issues with my 73mm C&L after a couple of months with the tweecer though... :shrug:

    But, in my opinion, the C&L meters are not nearly as good as the other stuff out there.


    just my opinion though,
    jason
     
    #16
  17. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,671
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Location:
    Seattle
    Care to elaborate?
    maf?
    injector?

    ???
     
    #17
  18. stykthyn

    stykthyn Commander of the snuggie cultists

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    8,167
    Likes Received:
    604
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Location:
    gainesville
    yeah, just how "cheap " is an ECU from autozone?
     
    #18

Share This Page