2v vs 4v

[Torinalth]

this has been tossed around a good bit, and people typically come around tyo stating that the 4v is better. well, here is my concern with never really getting my questions answered by any thread i have seen so far. I am almost done with my suspension and my engine will be following. i have been looking into going full bolt 2v, or pulling the motor for a aviator bottom end *same as mach but cheaper* and building it to my needs... however the more i research into this, the more disapointment i seem to have.

here is my conundrum: a full built 2v can make around 320hp (we are talking everything). and a stock 4v can make the same with exhaust and intake.... where i seem to be comming up short is the area of heads and cams. the exhaust and intake paths are fine.. this i can compare, however the 2vs have MPH, VT, patriot, foxlake, powerheads, etc all with proven numbers to go wit them. top those with some comp or vt cams and bam 300hp.

I have seen people toss around talk of 03/04 cobra/mach heads.... fr500 heads... ford GT heads but nothing at all compared with power numbers.... on top of that nothing in the slightest about cams. is this because there is no need to upgrade? ford got it riht? or what.

EDIT:*also, i have read a bit obout intakes... the aviator being the best choise and a "poor mans fr500" over the mach (revised 01 if i am not mistaken) but that it needs a cowl hood. and again nothing about power*

my motor has 127k and running higher. i am slowly replacing everything on the GT so i wont have to worry about it for a good long time (replacing with better gear) and soon it will be time for the motor. so i am kinda needing to findout if these items are just not discussed, or there really is zero information. i'd like to make the most power NA as possible without going big bore or 5.4.

i suppose this is a lot of background that may or may not be needed for a final question of: is there a point of going 4v over 2v for a NA setup. if so, how much of an inprovement and how is it achieved.

Sorry for so long, but i just cant find this info anywhere.

Torinalth

 

[DerekStangGT]

well, everyone says that 4v>2v for a reason. the 4v is obviously prone to higher hp and a better reaction to mods. reason is the 4v heads can flow better than 2v. someone correct me if im wrong, but i believe the block/rotating assemblies in the cobra are the same specs as the GTs. additional power on the cobras (NA, not 03+) is made from the better flowing heads, more aggressive cams, and software.
the same principles have always applied, the more air/fuel you can cram into the combustion chamber, the more power you will make. obviously a bore job will net you more power on your stock block, and then increase exponentially based on your other mods i.e. intake, cams, etc.
sorry i dont have any hard info or links, but it would just make sense to, if you wanted the most amount of N/A power, switch to a bigger engine or better flowing engine

 

[gtstangau]

People with the 4v heads seem to run ungodly HP numbers with stock heads and cams. Ford must have got it right with the 4v heads. I know that will be the path I take when it comes time for a new motor. 4V all the way .

 

[tomustang]

i suppose this is a lot of background that may or may not be needed for a final question of: is there a point of going 4v over 2v for a NA setup. if so, how much of an inprovement and how is it achieved.

I'm just going to nip this part

if you go all out N/A on 4V setup you could reach 450-500hp, permitting custom cams and some ported fr500/cobra r/race heads

now the tough compromise is losing handling since any 4V head is heavier than the 2V, and you should know by now add more weight up *top screws up the steer balance

*edited spelling error

 

[helty]

Theres and article in this months MMFF of a N/A 490hp 2V. Now, of course its a built 300ci stroker with cams, stage 3 heads, flat-tops w/ 11.68:1 compression and an HP custom Intake (which may* find production someday) and Im sure its way over what you are thinking about doing. But, there is a 490 horse N/A 2V out there.

 

[HoustonGT]

I'm just going to nip this part

if you go all out N/A on 4V setup you could reach 450-500hp, permitting custom cams and some ported fr500/cobra r/race heads

now the tough compromise is losing handling since any 4V head is heavier than the 2V, and you should know by now add more weight up to screws up the steer balance

400+ rwhp N/A Daily Driven Mustang =

 

[Torinalth]

thanks a ton for the information. no idea why this has been so hard to find. now that i have thoughs of higher then 300 (knew i would) lets piece some things together.

aviator bottom end, fr500 heads (~1400) get them ported, get some solid cams (custom), and a CAI/exhaust. this leaves me at one final point. upper and lower intake. stay cobra, aviator, other options?

i'd like to not blow 5g on the whole thing, but i will do what is needed. i am looking to around 400 with possible room to grow if i get spare cash/really want more power. also, are the 4v the same as the 2v in respect to needing exhaust and intake with posible gears to support cams? are there a off the shelf cam that can get me what i want without being forced to go farther?

Torinalth

 

[the98stang]

here is my conundrum: a full built 2v can make around 320hp (we are talking everything). and a stock 4v can make the same with exhaust and intake....

You can make much more power than that if you build the 2v for 14lbs of boost

 

[gtstangau]

You can make much more power than that if you build the 2v for 14lbs of boost

but a 4v with 14lbs of boost would be insanely fast!

 

[DropTopPony]

If I was to start fresh today and not already have money invested in 2 valve parts I would most likely build a 4V...probably get the FR500 Heads/Intake with some Comp 4V cams and drop them on a 5.0 Big Bore. I've seen some nice set ups coming out of Al P's shop (boss330racing) I think a modular making 450rwhp NA would be sweet and shut up alot of people...but 4V isn't cheap...if you want to go fast its gonna cost you.

 

[5spd GT]

tomustang - A supercharger would do the same thing, interupt handling because added weight up front. So I don't think that is the problem, more fitment and money is the problem that stops a few...

 

[JOHNS01GT]

EDIT:*also, i have read a bit obout intakes... the aviator being the best choise and a "poor mans fr500" over the mach (revised 01 if i am not mistaken) but that it needs a cowl hood. and again nothing about power*Torinalth

I think Sullivan makes intakes for the 4V, both N/A and Supercharged. Don't know the website, but a search will likely find it. Like everyone said 4V heads flow better that's why they make more power, as you probably have gathered. I like the increased RPM the 4V allows you to have, also allows you to run more gear.

Oh and did anyone see that 490 horse 2V intake? The production version will likely not be as powerful. That intake in the magazine was freaking HUGE and weird looking!!! I don't know what your eventual goal for the car is(street or strip) but a high strung N/A 2V making that kind of power is probably not all that streetable, or should I say driveability will suffer. MM&FF's 97 Cobra has a 283 inch stroker 4V with cams, intake, and bolt-ons I believe makes 360rwhp and revs to over 8000 rpm. Obviously you could make more if you wanted.

Not that I hate the 2V, but the 4V offers so much more.

 

[Dan_Soprano]

but a 4v with 14lbs of boost would be insanely fast!

try a 4v with 17# of boost!

 

[hognutz]

the bore size of the 2v is going to limit its hp potential in N/A form. that is why the 4v is superior in n/a form. you can get more valve in the bore and more airflow.

If you don't like engine swaps just boost the 2v. if you want to make big hp n/a swap in a 4v. you can make tons of power with either but the 2v is really limited if you don't like boost or spray. now I don't know if you have priced the 4v parts fot he build up but it will cost you to build an HP moster. cams alone are like $1200.

neither platform is that cost effective n/a if you ask me. not when you compare it to a old SBF or SBC. OHV motors are just cheaper to build.

 

[the98stang]

If I could afford a 350WHP N/A beast I would build one, but I can't because I'm broke. Which is why I think superchargers/spray are the best bang for the buck.

Sh1t, if I had the money, I would buy a 04 cobra. But that won't happen lol. I'm stuck with the 2v

 

[billfisher]

4v will cost you less than a blower.

if you have low mileage block/assembly

replace pistons, front cover, heads, etc. there is a million ways to get the parts used.

forget 2v.

 

[Marks5.0!]

theres a 99 cobra on the mach boards, fr500 h/c/i that threw down 410 to the wheels on a stock bottom end and think hes putting down 450ish on a big bore 304 now with the same h/c/i.
Im not saying that the 4v is god but im still impressed by what these 4v's are putting down with even just basic mods.

On the aviator intake, im gonna be finding out how much gain its worth here in a few weeks, gonna swap my p&p stocker and php spacer for an aviator.

 

[tomustang]

tomustang - A supercharger would do the same thing, interupt handling because added weight up front. So I don't think that is the problem, more fitment and money is the problem that stops a few...

yup

 

[Mike97gt]

4v is the way to go.. in fact I looked at a 03 mach1 today with 15k miles on it. but guess how much they wanted for it.. 26k <--- I almost slapped the salesman when he told me the price. I am trying to make up my mind if I am willing to put in a offer for 19k and see if they take it.

If I stay with the GT I will swap to 4v soon. thats why I have no engine mods.

 

[the98stang]

4v will cost you less than a blower.

if you have low mileage block/assembly

replace pistons, front cover, heads, etc. there is a million ways to get the parts used.

forget 2v.

stock 4v < 2v with blower

I think a N/A 4v would need a sh1t load of mods to keep up with a blown 2v. Now a blown 4v is obviously going to kick some a$$, but some of us don't have that kind of money