300hp 289?

[65FBE2]

I just rebuilt a 289 with a goal of about 300 hp. The car is a 65GT convert and I wanted the car to look and sound stock. I also was building for low 20's as far as mileage was concerned. Car has 3.25 gear and T5 tranny

Heres the engine: 289 block .03, 302 crank, C08 rods, boss windage tray, 9.5 compression Hyper pistons (light weight), alum flywheel. 351W heads 58cc chambers 1.94 In, 1.6 Ex., ported. cam is 204/In with .450 lift, 214/ Ex with .480 112 lobe centers. Stock intake and 480 cfm autolite carb, 289 HP exhaust manifolds. Stock distributor with vacuum advance, timing set at 12 deg initial.

Engine runs fine but seams to have only a slight power increase from the stock 289 A code engine. I feel this combination shoud make 300 plus? Where did I go wrong?

 

[2+2GT]

I just rebuilt a 289 with a goal of about 300 hp. The car is a 65GT convert and I wanted the car to look and sound stock. I also was building for low 20's as far as mileage was concerned. Car has 3.25 gear and T5 tranny

Heres the engine: 289 block .03, 302 crank, C08 rods, boss windage tray, 9.5 compression Hyper pistons (light weight), alum flywheel. 351W heads 58cc chambers 1.94 In, 1.6 Ex., ported. cam is 204/In with .450 lift, 214/ Ex with .480 112 lobe centers. Stock intake and 480 cfm autolite carb, 289 HP exhaust manifolds. Stock distributor with vacuum advance, timing set at 12 deg initial.

Engine runs fine but seams to have only a slight power increase from the stock 289 A code engine. I feel this combination shoud make 300 plus? Where did I go wrong?

Well first of all you went light on the cam. Ford's own upgrade program indicated using the C9OZ-C hydraulic HiPo cam with .470/.470, 290°/290°, 113 center.

This was only the first of three steps, the highest included the 351W heads, higher compression than you have, and the Cobra LeMans cam, which is a solid lifter type, and brings power up to nearly 350 hp. BTW, these cams are available. The C9OZ-C would be the easiest route for you, unless you want the C3OZ-C 289HP cam, or the C7FE-A Cobra LeMans. The Cobra was the actual cam used in Ford racing, but amazingly, has a pretty decent idle.

My 66 has a stone-stock 289HP, except it is blueprinted, and has been port-matched. Lemme tell ya, it puts out a LOT more power than an A code engine.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Yeah, that cam is really mild and the stock intake manifold isn't doing any favors for the ported heads.

 

[Edster]

Get a an aluminum intake preferably a Performer RPM or the Ford manifold that it copies. Then a hotter cam. Also a bigger carb might help. Ford did make a 600cfm version as well. If you can clean up the valve pockets/bowls in the heads and a port match, that will get to your goal. Joe Sherman once built a 400HP 302 using mildly ported 289 heads, a plenum intake and put the pistons in backwards. I think the cam was a 282 dur. and in the high .400s on the lift. He managed to do it on 2500 bucks, but this wa the mid 90's.

 

[65FBE2]

I hear ya but, with the goal of 20 plus miles per gallon on the highway, I had to go to an overdrive tranny. I am concerned about power below 1600 rpm which is 60 mph with this gear and tranny. I felt that this cam would make power to about 5500 rpm. The motor seems to pull hard to about 3,000 then just has nothing. I added a Classic auto air system and it comes with this huge non flex fan. Could that be robbing that much power at higher rpms? I also felt the carb to be a little small for the heads but because the motor would be limited to less than 5500 I felt it would work. Any thoughts on that?

By the way, I have 1000 miles on it and the best I can get for milage is 16 city 20 highway. I can get that with my other car which is a full tilt 347 and 3.55 gears .74 overdrive

 

[rbohm]

I hear ya but, with the goal of 20 plus miles per gallon on the highway, I had to go to an overdrive tranny. I am concerned about power below 1600 rpm which is 60 mph with this gear and tranny. I felt that this cam would make power to about 5500 rpm. The motor seems to pull hard to about 3,000 then just has nothing. I added a Classic auto air system and it comes with this huge non flex fan. Could that be robbing that much power at higher rpms? I also felt the carb to be a little small for the heads but because the motor would be limited to less than 5500 I felt it would work. Any thoughts on that?

By the way, I have 1000 miles on it and the best I can get for milage is 16 city 20 highway. I can get that with my other car which is a full tilt 347 and 3.55 gears .74 overdrive

your biggest restriction is the stock intake. it really isnt flowing enough air to allow the engine to makes its full potential. as the others have suggested get a performer rpm or a weiand action plus intake. you can paint these engine color to disguise them somewhat. your next restriction is the exhaust manifolds. while the hipo one are better than stock for flow, tri-y headers would do much better, and still look period correct. as for the cam, is there really a .030 difference in valve lift? most dual pattern cams are much closer together lift wise. the exhaust lift is fine though. i suggest putting a set of 1.7 rockers on the intake side only to pick up more power. the other problem is the 112 degree lobe centers, i usually prefer 110 degree centers myself.

did you degree this cam when you installed it? if not it might be too far advanced or retarded that can be part of your problem.

as for the carb, i see no issues with it as long as it is working properly. make sure the secondaries are opening properly otherwise you just have a small 2bbl carb.

 

[2+2GT]

I hear ya but, with the goal of 20 plus miles per gallon on the highway, I had to go to an overdrive tranny. I am concerned about power below 1600 rpm which is 60 mph with this gear and tranny. I felt that this cam would make power to about 5500 rpm. The motor seems to pull hard to about 3,000 then just has nothing. I added a Classic auto air system and it comes with this huge non flex fan. Could that be robbing that much power at higher rpms? I also felt the carb to be a little small for the heads but because the motor would be limited to less than 5500 I felt it would work. Any thoughts on that?

By the way, I have 1000 miles on it and the best I can get for milage is 16 city 20 highway. I can get that with my other car which is a full tilt 347 and 3.55 gears .74 overdrive

Dying at 3000 is just wrong, small Fords are supposed to "come on" at that rpm. The cam I mentioned opens up at that point. You need that cam, and a Cobra or Performer Plus manifold. A 600 cfm carb is a must. The 480 is excellent, but simply not capable of providing the power you state as your goal. A 1.12 would be adequate, but will cost substantially more than an Edelbrock.

Did you get the distributor adjusted? This is usually overlooked, and IMHO is the #1 killer of engine power.

My old A code, with 4-speed and 3.00:1 rear would get 21 on the highway. With a T5 or AOD you should easily match that once your engine is more balanced.

 

[65FBE2]

How much total timing should this engine have with the vacume advance hooked up and the initial set at 12 BTDC with the stock distributor? I have a Ignitor I installed to replace the points

 

[2+2GT]

How much total timing should this engine have with the vacume advance hooked up and the initial set at 12 BTDC with the stock distributor? I have a Ignitor I installed to replace the points

Total timing is only the tip of the iceberg. The rate at which they climb is critical, and if they get there too soon, or too late, your power is lost.

 

[65FBE2]

Is the 14 degrees of mechanical advance at the distibutor or the crank? Which is double I think. I think my vacume advance is putting to much timing in. How do you ajust this?

 

[2+2GT]

Is the 14 degrees of mechanical advance at the distibutor or the crank? Which is double I think. I think my vacuum advance is putting to much timing in. How do you ajust this?

The 14° max limit is set when you assemble the advance plate under the point plate. But don't concentrate on this, the max limit is the least important point on the curve.

There are two types of vacuum advance, the OEM that uses an internal spring with spacers, and the aftermarket, adjusted by a Phillips tool down the tube. On the latter, the limit and curve are adjusted simultaneously, not as accurate, but can be done. But please, don't concentrate on the total advance, the rate at which it advances is much much more important.

 

[v8only]

ditch both the cam and the heads. get some really good aftermarket alum heads, and you MAY see 250-275 with that 289...MAYBE a little higher

 

[htwheelz67]

if you added alum heads and a bigger cam 300hp is nothing, the performer cam is small and I would have run a cam with about 212 int duration, you can still add about 30-40 hp and a good amount of tq to that combo, get rid of the intake and install a wieand 8124 intake manifold that alone will add about 15-20hp/tq to the combo, get rid of the cast ex manifolds and install either 1 5/8 try-y headers or 1 5/8 long tubes, you could try your autolite carb on that combo and it will be snappy but good luck fine tuning it, an edelbrock 600 will work well on that combo but a holley or better yet a road demon 525-625 anuular booster carb will dramatically increase power and TQ. Get rid of the stock dist and add at least a duraspark recurved with about 34-36 degs total and a good ignition box and gap the plugs 45-60, run about 12-14 intitial timing and run premium gas, the small performer cam does not like compression. Dont forget to add a good low restriction open element air cleaner.

I can gaurantee you adding those parts to your existing combo will at least gain about 30hp and about the same TQ possibly up to 50hp with a fine tune. As far as mpgs with the above and your T-5 you should be able to pull low to mid 20's easilly. Throw a junkyard efi on there and TQ and mpg's would go up further.

 

[Decurion]

I have a question regarding timing curve, which should help the OP here too. I recurved my distributor, but I think the timing is coming in too fast. I can watch timing start to advance by about 1100 engine rpm, and its all in by 2000 engine rpm. That seems a little too fast, isnt it? How fast should the timing start coming in and when should it be all in? I looked at the chart posted above, but that didnt seem too clear to me.

My engine is a stock 5.0L with roller cam (stock NON-H.O.), stock iron gt40 heads (big chambers, low compression ~8.8:1), pertronix ignition, performer rpm intake, holley 600 vac sec, cobra roller rockers, shorty headers, t5, 3.55 gear.

 

[2+2GT]

I disagree, he already has 351W heads, which are what the GT40 heads came from. Sure aluminum heads would be an improvement, but I don't think he needs to spend a thousand dollars for that marginal improvement. There's nothing magic about aluminum heads, they're just lighter than iron, as in the iron GT40 head vs aluminum GT40 head.

He'd probably get a better improvement spending $75 to get his distributor done.

 

[65FBE2]

The goal here was to create a 300hp stock appearing engine. The heads I have, have in the past made well over 400hp in my 347. They are not the problem. 300hp would be easy if I did not have this self imposed limitation. Its because this is a factory GT convertible. I want to keep the engine all numbers matching. This is why the stock dist and manifolds. This is the same reason for the RRS front end. Remove 12 bolts and the whole thing drops out and I can put the stock stuff back in and the car keeps its collectable value. My math still says it should work.
289 4v = 225hp
17 more cu in 15hp
351w ported 40hp
289 hp manifolds 10hp
cam 10hp
windage tray, light weight pistons, blue printed engine, alum fly wheel 10hp
Total hp =310

Scott main at cam research said that the stock ford intake flows very well up to about 4,000. He also supplied the cam or this combo. This should work. I will recurve the dist first, then move on to the manifolds if I have too.

 

[htwheelz67]

you are using gross hp numbers not SAE I would say you are making about 230 hp to the crank if you are lucky and maybe 175 to the wheels. An Intake can be painted to match the engine and 12 bolts to re-install the stock one, the stock intake makes good TQ below 3000 rpm but poops out fast by 4000 rpm. I had a 302 in a van, same cam, 9-1 compression and stock, int with performer 600 carb and cast manifolds, I installed a performer intake and longtube headers and there was a very noticable increase in power just changing those two items, from off idle all the way up the rpm band.

 

[2+2GT]

The goal here was to create a 300hp stock appearing engine. The heads I have, have in the past made well over 400hp in my 347. They are not the problem. 300hp would be easy if I did not have this self imposed limitation. Its because this is a factory GT convertible. I want to keep the engine all numbers matching. This is why the stock dist and manifolds. This is the same reason for the RRS front end. Remove 12 bolts and the whole thing drops out and I can put the stock stuff back in and the car keeps its collectable value. My math still says it should work.

Scott main at cam research said that the stock ford intake flows very well up to about 4,000. He also supplied the cam or this combo. This should work. I will recurve the dist first, then move on to the manifolds if I have too.

OK, stock appearance. Change from the 1.08 carb to the 1.12, which appears identical but has much better flow, as it was used in the 289HP. That's the one I'm using now. Change to the C30Z-C 289HP cam, or the C9OZ-C hydraulic version. Either flows better than your cam, and you still have stock appearance and idle.

When you recurve the distributor, use BOSS 302 specs. Your carb and cam will still limit power, I'm afraid, but it'll get better with distributor adjustment.

 

[v8only]

He's right, at Gross vs SAE...

that 289 you're starting with is 150 HP in reality. You're trying to add another 150 hp with a small cam and old out dated iron heads.

the 289 is a problem from the getgo. To make any power out of that block, you need to run more than stock compression, and run a bigger cam, which is going to make you unstreetable to a large degree, then run aluminum heads.

you're better off starting with a 5.0 roller block. 225 + iron gt40 heads = 300-325 flywheel horse all day long...+ it'll look damned near identical to that 289.

To the poster who said that it wasn't worth the upgrade from iron gt40's to aluminum's, I could not possibly disagree more.

while I'm a huge advocate of iron gt40 and gt40p heads, and in fact, run those heads on 3 of my vehicles, the difference between a set of iron gt40 heads and the SMALL afr 165 heads is about a full 50 hp.

In the original posters scenario, he's running a stock 150 hp block with a tiny cam, and out dated 351 heads, and needs to gain another 150 hp. the ONLY way that's going to happen is with a GOOD set of aluminum heads and a real good cam. At that, with the 289, he may still not make his goal.

65fbe2...the reason you made 400 hp with a 347 stroker, is that you started with a 5.0 block to begin with. stock for stock, the 5.0 blocks make damned near 100 REAL hp over the vintage blocks. you can throw garbage at the 5.0 blocks, and they make good power quick.

Dyno that engine as is, and you'll find you have maybe 200 at the wheels, give or take a little/

the 351w head swap on an otherwise stock shorblock with a small cam was good 20 years ago when we had nothing on the market that was better. Nowadays, it's just about the worse way to go if you want to make serious power, such as what you want to do.

 

[D.Hearne]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with ported 351W heads. Anyone who says that there is, doesn't know squat. Are there better heads? Yea, but there's nothing wrong with what he chose to make 300hp as far as the heads go. Needs more cam, not a lot, but more than what he's got. Even something like a Comp 268H would wake it up over what he's running. As for the carb, nothing wrong there either (although I'd use a similar sized Holley). Need more intake manifold, my choice would be the old Ford C9OX, Edelbrock F4B, or Ford's newer A321. These were all factory hi-po upgrades and period correct.