351W f4te engine block - what would you pay?

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by johnny_munyak, Sep 2, 2009.

  1. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

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    looks like afr 185's got a recent change in design....they sound pretty awesome.


    New style 185's or 205's ? - Hardcore 5.0 - The Hardcore Ford Drag Racers Forum
     
    #61
  2. BlackVert

    BlackVert Mustang Master

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    so you got it ... congrats. in my opinion, $900 for a fully functioning ride that you can use as a daily driver is not a bad deal.

    now here's a thought for you ...

    since there are fitment related issues putting one of these mothers in the car, and since it can take a long while to save the money and collect all the parts for an engine build up, and since the 351 seems to be in good running condition, you might consider doing the bare minimum to get the 351 (as it is today) into the car and running. that way, you have all the fitment issues worked out up front and then it is a much more straightforward project later when the money and parts are collected. and you can enjoy it while you are saving up for the build.

    looking back, i wish i had gone that route when i was doing mine. the car would have been back on the road so much faster

    just a thought
     
    #62
  3. 89stang1

    89stang1 Stroked and Juiced

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    i have the new style AFR 185s............yes they are awesome Rick from RNH P. built my 333ci stroker and my stang made 360RWHP and 383RWT on Booze Brothers mustang dyno, Rick and the tuner there thinks my stang would make 400RWHP on a dynojet. Im running and out of the box cobra intake and when car was dynoed had a crappy set of ford racing spark plug wires that rick told me to replace which i have changed for a set of MSD super conductor wires, and i can feel the difference bigtime!, so 400RWHP is reachable with a 333ci i think built right a 351should have no problem making the #!


    BTW my car is and absolute blast to drive!!!!!!! TORQUE IS AMAZING!!!
     
    #63
  4. 95Vert383AOD

    95Vert383AOD Active Member

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    NMC...

    But doesn't the lifter bar setup require a small base circle camshaft??? I assumed folks knew what i was talking about when i was talking about that stuff....but then again....yet another $450 expense. I want alot of HP but i dont want a choppy running car that barely drives....If i want to go to 800hp im not scrounging for an early 351....I'm just going to buy a 460 and call it a day!!!

    Remember Machine shops charge by the Cyl. and by the Valve....Not by the Displacement!!! Rebuilding a 460 will cost about the same as a 351 or 302. All you have to worry about is the higher price of the "GO-FAST" parts like BBF heads and intake.

    If i had to do it over i would Go Big Block. Seriously.

    Chris
     
    #64
  5. kck6894

    kck6894 Advanced Member

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    I just got a set of the AFM Hi-Rev Twisted Wedge heads from Anderson Ford. CNC Twisted Wedge Heads
    IRRC Rick said they are right around the 185's and they flow like 325 at .600 lift. If you went with one of his cams they are already set up with his springs and everything. I flowed the set I got and the flowed like 308 at .600. The guy at our shop said most flow benches vary by like 10% so that is within the correct range.

    Just thought I'd toss it out there as another option. :nice:
     
    #65
  6. johnny_munyak

    johnny_munyak Member

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    Believe me, I AM researching all over the place. Not only here. I'm talking to engine builders, posting questions for opinions, etc. Don't assume that I'm diving head first and building the engine tommorrow. Far from it.

    My first objective was to acquire the doaner/block. I wanted a roller ready block capable of handling 400-500 HP NA and I think this will fit the bill.

    H/c/i choice will be made carefully. I"m not gonna go out and buy the first thing that someone says is the cats ass. I may just opt for a complete Edelbrock setup, or a trickflow setup.....who knows....but the idea was to try and get some idea of what is required to meet or beat that infamous 400HP mark if possible.

    AS I said, I'm not stuck on the stroker idea either, I may opt for a fresh build of the 351 with good components and a free breathing efi setup and shoehorn that into the car. I must reiterate that HP wasn't necessarily my primary objective, but reliability and driveability is if I could have my cake and eat it to by getting to that 400 HP mark, great. IF I fall short at 385 HP, I won't cry about it. 8)
     
    #66
  7. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

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    No, the whole point of the expensive lifters is to run a regular cam. I think if u drill/tap the block for a spider to use regular lifters, (or is it just plopping in lifters without the spider) that u have to run a reduced circle cam.

    And the lifters are expensive, but they are damn good lifters. Its just the same as if you wanted to build a high revvin motor....you gotta pay to play :nice: Better performing parts cost more money.

    I havent seen very many big block swaps into 94-95s....i'd stay with a EFI 351. But thats why we have different cars, its all good! :D



    Good stuff, just didnt want u to make decisions you'd regret later.

    I'd check out those new AFR 185s....they sound pretty bad ass. OR if you think you might stroke it later, go a little bit bigger on the heads. Either way, i do think that getting a custom cam is worth the investment....if stuff hasnt changed Ed Curtis does a trade in deal where u trade in your old one and get a new one at a discounted price. (say if u went to a stroker later).


    Good luck!
     
    #67
  8. BlackVert

    BlackVert Mustang Master

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    johnny, any thoughts about this comment?
     
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  9. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    The Dart blocks actually need more machining than a factory block, because the lifter bores generally aren't machined from Dart. Any block you bring to the machine shop is going to end up costing about the same.

    $900 for any vehicle that runs is a pretty good deal, especially for a pick up truck.

    Kurt
     
    #69
  10. johnny_munyak

    johnny_munyak Member

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    Yes, I did think about that as well and it holds much merit.....but here's the thing. My car runs mint right now. Just installed the new thumper GT40's, new cam, lifters, ported explorer/gt40 intake with 65mm throttle body and stainless headers and exhaust, underdrives, CAI, etc. The bottom end is stock and good and tight. I cant' believe how well it runs. IF I'm not flogging the **** out of it, it will probably last a LONG time.

    The truck was kind of a spur of the moment thing. I like the idea of more cubes and more HP which is what spurred on this whole 351 build up swap.

    So with that being said, I thought I'd start inquiring and acquiring what may be necessary to get it into the car as well as a good setup for H/C/I.

    I acquired the truck because of how "rare" these supposed roller blocks are getting....be it true or not? At any rate, I have a good platform to start building on.

    Anyone have a recommendation for upper and lower intake?

    I realize a new hood may be required, but I'd like to get away with as little a cowl as possible. Some of them are BUTT ugly on the sn95's! :jaw:
     
    #70
  11. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

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    There are not that many options intake wise....i ran the TFS-R intake. They also have a Box upper you can run(which is even taller than the TFS-R) and i think edelbrock has a vic. jr intake. Then there's the spider style with the elbow....


    all of which are expensive as hell lol.
     
    #71
  12. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

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    ahhh good stuff. note taken :nice:
     
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  13. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    Basically all the intakes fit on the car with a hood, and they are all relatively affordable. If you are running a 351W, you pretty much have to get a hood. I think you can get away with a stock hood if you use the factory Cobra R intake that came in the 94-95 Cobras with a 351 Cobra lower.

    Kurt
     
    #73
  14. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

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    The vic jr. is the only one in the "normal" intake price range at $599. The TFS intakes are $699 and $799. And from what i remember from researching the spider style, they are above the TFS intakes.


    The TFS-R fit fine on my car with a cobra rr svo....pretty sure its about 2.5".


    I like the cervinis single step cowl for "simple" looks....but damn, that price tag :bang:


    edit: "normal" depends on the person, so 699 and 799 might not seem so expensive to others.
     
    #74
  15. xr8d302

    xr8d302 I bought a 27" monitor to compensate for my lack o

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    I sure hope my cervini's ram air hood clears the 351 and TFS-R, but I've taken enough precautions to be on the optimistic side (new K member and such)

    To the point, this is an interesting thread. I'll think i'm subscribe. woot
     
    #75
  16. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    I think the biggest thing to watch out for is the valve covers. If you use the Trick Flow valve covers you can run just about any intake without spacers. I had to trim the bottom of my Systemax 2 intake to clear the Trick Flows, but I don't have any spacers. Anything under $1000 for an intake isn't too bad when you are talking about a minimum $6000 engine. Once you put a spacer in the intake, all hopes of getting it under a stock hood are out. The Cervini's hood is expensive, but it's good quality, and worth paying for in my opinion. I got the 4" Cobra R from some guy in Vero Beach who makes the hoods for Steeda. I payed $350 I think, but it fit better than the stock hood.

    Kurt
     
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  17. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

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    Trying to think back when i ran a systemax....i think i had my trickflow covers, but i know i have a pair of old fox body valve covers. Cant be 100% but i think mine fit without trimming. Anyhow, i agree that cervinis is quality, just depends on if u got the money for that.

    And thats why i added my edit....cause its gonna depend on the owner what is expensive and what isnt. I never had a 6,000 engine build....so that $700 was A LOT. lol :rlaugh:
     
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  18. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    I tried to put fox valve covers on my engine when I built it, and it didn't clear the alternator. The oil fill neck was also in a hard place to work around. If you build a 351 stroker with nice aluminum heads, by the time you add up all the nickel and dime items, it will be over $6K.

    Kurt
     
    #78
  19. Pokageek

    Pokageek Active Member

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    That's a strong 360rw..on a mustang dyno at that. You would be over 400rwhp dyno jet.
     
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  20. nmcgrawj

    nmcgrawj Advanced Member

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    Yea thats why im pretty sure i went out and bought the TFS covers....this was like 4 years ago so its a bit sketchy in my memory.

    And i wasnt saying a stroker wouldnt cost that much....i just havent built that yet. So depending on each individual project, that money may or may not be a lot.
     
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