3G and 2 wire regulator?????

[Michael Yount]

Got it - sorry!

 

[Daggar]

Yep... I get what you're saying Mike. I guess that my primary concern is not so much the current draw potential that the car has as it sitts now, but the current draw potential resulting from adding additional accessories later on. I'm concerned that the 10 guage wires might at some point, end up being alternate path of current flow in the event that the fuse on the larger power wire should blow. Hooking the old wiring to the alternator seems to provide a parallel path to the alternator and start solenoid. "If" any accessory capable of significant current draw (even coming directly from the battery) should end up being fed by the alternator through that 10 guage wire in the event that the 4 guage wire fuse fails, then it's gonna be a light show. So... I'm going to choose the safe path and leave the black/orange wires disconnected and intact in it's connector. If for some reason the cahrging system doesn't funtion correctly, I'll either fuse them, as suggested by Jrichker or run a tap from after the fuse on the new power wire. I think all that is left for now is to cantact PA Performance on Monday and ensure that their modified 2G will not require the third wire (stator wire).

The 94-95 regulator connector will have the white/black wire with it. Splice the white/black wire on the regulator plug to the white/black wire with the field connector on it.

I think what you're saying here is that there are two terminals on the alternator itself that need to be jumpered together (since I have no white/black wire). I'm guessing that the terminal for the wire that I'm lacking would be jumpered directly to the stator terminal (the one that's all by it's lonesome) on the alternator.

 

[Michael Yount]

The instructions that came with my PA-performance alternator were simple, clear and excellent. I had the wiring changed very quickly/easily. I think I've still got them. Daggar if you think that's helpful, let me know and I'll scan/email them to you. THey may be on their website.

 

[Daggar]

Post content removed

 

[Daggar]

The instructions that came with my PA-performance alternator were simple, clear and excellent. I had the wiring changed very quickly/easily. I think I've still got them. Daggar if you think that's helpful, let me know and I'll scan/email them to you. THey may be on their website.

Thanks Mike... I think they WOULD be of help. I saw a link on their site for the instructions but it was a dead link.

 

[Michael Yount]

Think about what you're saying Daggar - any 'tap' into the 10 gauges has the same potential as if they're connected to the alternator. Your additional accessories aren't gonna be fed by those wires. But, at the end of the day, do what makes you feel the most comfortable.

 

[Daggar]

Also, no more current can go through the 10 gauge wires than is being drawn through them. With other devices drawing their current directly from the alternator or the battery - I still don't see the potential problem -even in the worst case. Seems to me the worst case is major short from battery to ground - in which case you need a fusible link on the hot side of the battery. Don't know what the Stang system does with that. I added one when I relocated the battery - seems a good standard practice. It's gotta be big enough to manage starting current though.

If you draw that power away form the battery with a large accessory then the current from the alternator is what's going to replace that to the battery. Whoala! Light bulb filiment!

 

[Daggar]

Think about what you're saying Daggar - any 'tap' into the 10 gauges has the same potential as if they're connected to the alternator. Your additional accessories aren't gonna be fed by those wires. But, at the end of the day, do what makes you feel the most comfortable.

No no... I'm not talking about tapping into the 10 guage... I'm talking abotu tapping into the 4 guage after the fuse so that if the fuse on the guage blows then the 10 guage does not end up being the alternate path for power and end up overloaded. Either that, or fusing the 10 guage so that if for some reason it does end up trying to carry the entire load itself then it will be protected.

 

[Daggar]

This helps to illustrate what I'm trying to say:

Assuming we have anough accessories to overcome the carrying capacity of the 10 guage wire and the fuse for the 4 guage wire blows then we're in dutch. With the 4 guage path closed off, there's only one other path for current to follow. With the fan running and taking juice from the battery the replacement for that current draw is going to come directly from the alternator. The reduction in power caused by the battery due to the power draw from the fan is going to allow more current to run from the alternator tothe battery. So long as fan continues to run, the current increase allong the wire from the alternator to the battery is going to be significant. That's why I believe that it's important that the the 10 guage wire either be not used, or protected.

 

[93 teal terror]

I assume the PA performace 2g is the same or similar to a Powermaster 2g. If so its a real easy 1 wire hookup. Just take the red/green wire and hook it up to the closest terminal (check alt. instuctions usually marked #1) and then tie the rest of the mess away. Just for giggles I used about a 20g wire on the harness side and only see about a 10~15 amp drop vs. the 10g. Whoever said current is drawn fro the alternator is right, otherwise my wire would have burned up long ago. Just make sure you dont use a thicker guage wire than stock. Then just get a 4-6g wire for the batt side and hook it up directly with a fuse somewhere in the middle. I wouldnt worry about the fuses on the harness side, youve probably got a better chance of wrecking the car and dieing than that happening

 

[93 teal terror]

This helps to illustrate what I'm trying to say:

Assuming we have anough accessories to overcome the carrying capacity of the 10 guage wire and the fuse for the 4 guage wire blows then we're in dutch. With the 4 guage path closed off, there's only one other path for current to follow. With the fan running and taking juice from the battery the replacement for that current draw is going to come directly from the alternator. The reduction in power caused by the battery due to the power draw from the fan is going to allow more current to run from the alternator tothe battery. So long as fan continues to run, the current increase allong the wire from the alternator to the battery is going to be significant. That's why I believe that it's important that the the 10 guage wire either be not used, or protected.

Yeah don't use the 10g wire on the batt. side. I thought you were talking about the harness side. I would just tape it off and not worry about it. If the alt. doesn't "pump" out current on that side and draws power like someone else said then it really wouldnt make a diff. But I would error on the side of caution and just tape the 10G off and go with one 4G wire with a fuse a little larger than your alt. capacity.

 

[hllon4whls]

Try hosting this one so that it will fit in frame:

I just threw it up there so you could see it. I now have it scanned and it looks better. The original printout is a tad blurry because I shrank it to fit on the page. This little simple color code should be all the info you will need. It corresponds to the picture that you have posted originally. Hook the yellow wire to the yellow spot in the diagram, the green with the red stripe to the green spot and hook the white wire back to the alt like it showes. You can get a nice little pigtail out of a J/Y or make your own with spades.

For the wire, a mega fuse close to the battery and 4 gauge wire and you are all set.

I have a switch installed on mine that I can manually turn the alt on and off. Never used it, just had an extra location on the switch panel, so I wired it in.

 

[Daggar]

Ahhhhhhhh yes. Now I can see it.

Thanks hllon4whls!

 

[Michael Yount]

Still see it differently than you - if your aftermarket stuff is wired off the battery or alternator and not the fuse box, the 10 gauges won't pull anymore than they can right now. With your schematic, the ONLY thing protected by the fusible link is the cable between it and the alternator. If you want to protect the 10 gauge (which I don't think is necessary - the fuses in the fuse box already protect them) you have to get a link between those and the battery too. If the alt. link goes, then the 10 gauges can still theoretically try to draw the overload just sourced by the battery instead of the alternator. Look at your drawing without the alt. there - battery can just as easily overwhelm the 10 gauges as the alternator can. Another fusible link coming off the battery hot is the only way to offer anymore protection than you already have. But you need to do what you think is best.

 

[Daggar]

Still see it differently than you - if your aftermarket stuff is wired off the battery or alternator and not the fuse box, the 10 gauges won't pull anymore than they can right now. With your schematic, the ONLY thing protected by the fusible link is the cable between it and the alternator. If you want to protect the 10 gauge (which I don't think is necessary) you have to get a link between those and the battery too. If the alt. link goes, then the 10 gauges can still theoretically try to draw the overload just sourced by the battery instead of the alternator. Look at your drawing without the alt. there - battery can just as easily overwhelm the 10 gauges as the alternator can. Another fusible link coming off the battery hot is the only way to offer anymore protection than you already have. But you need to do what you think is best.

Exactly. My drawing is an example of what NOT to do. It would (oversimplified) be the result of hooking the black/orange wire directly to the alternator (as it is now in the stock configuration). To protect it the black/white wire would either need to be fused or linked to the 4 guage wire between the fuse and the battery and NOT the alternator. That way, when the fuse blows, the black/orange wire is isolated from the alternator and would not be forced to try and carry the load resulting from the alternator making up the charge difference coming off of the battery. The part I think that is being missed, is that the black/orange wire has splices and junctions throughout the chasis. If we increase the draw potential of the accessories throughout the car and the 4 guage wire fuse blows the the black/orange wires (if connected to the alternator) will have no choice but to try and carry the entire load from the alternator to the battery. The more the battery is discharged, the more current it will draw from the alternator to make up that difference. That's where the threat of leaving the black/ornage wires connected between the battery and the alternator come into play. Below is just one way to eliminate that possibility as compared to the earlier drawing.

if your aftermarket stuff is wired off the battery or alternator and not the fuse box, the 10 gauges won't pull anymore than they can right now.

That's not correct if the 10 guage wire runs from the alternator to the battery. If you have an alternator capable of 130 amps and the accessories running from the battery create a 130 amp difference between the battery and the available alternator supply then you will in fact, be running 130 amps through that 10 guage wire until it burns up if there is no other path for the current to flow through.

Edit: This is all under the assumption that the black/orange are connected to the alt though. According to jrichker, they need not be. That would be my first pick is to not have them hooked to the alt at all if they're not needed.

 

[Michael Yount]

I don't see how your second drawing protects the 10 gauge any differently than it's protected now, unless you get a link in it too. In any event, sounds like you're clear what you want to do - so good luck with the changes.

 

[Daggar]

I don't see how your second drawing protects the 10 gauge any differently than it's protected now, unless you get a link in it too. In any event, sounds like you're clear what you want to do - so good luck with the changes.

...because if the fuse between the alternator and battery blows then the alternator's ability to feed the battery goes with it. Your correct in noting that the wire is not protected from the load's ability to draw current from the battery (750 CCA is even more than the 3g will put out) but the drawing is meant to be only an example of how to isolate the black/orange wires from the alternator. The black orange wires would still need it's own fuse protection and for that matter, could be installed in-line on the first drawing. The other thing is that I get what you're saying about my current electrical load being unable to pull the kind of current we're talking about. I understand that in it's current configuration, that my car will not pull any more current with a larger alternator than it does now. I just figure that if I'm going to do it, I may as well prepare for the eventualities.

 

[jrichker]

I guess I'm wondering how much current the alternator's gonna put out at all if it shorts out internally.

The alternator output isn't so much a concern as the battery current flowing through the 4 gauge & two 10 gauge wires in the event of a short at, or inside the alternator. An internal short right at the output would be a direct path from the battery to ground. Or, if a wrench or other tool gets dropped across the alternator output terminal and welds itself to the copper stud and the surrounding metal. I didn't think of putting a protective boot over the output, and probably no one else has either.

 

[Michael Yount]

jrichker gets at what I'm trying to get at guys - unless there's a dead short from battery to ground pulsing throught the 10 gauge - you don't have a problem. And every Stang (most other cars too) are already pregnant with that problem. The only way to protect it is to fuse the 10gauge wires also - whether they're connected to the alternator or the battery. BTW - my PA-Performance alternator came with a boot for that power stud. You'd have to poke through it with something sharp - although Murphy's law says I could probably manage it.

Daggar - "...because if the fuse between the alternator and battery blows then the alternator's ability to feed the battery goes with it. " Absolutely. But nothing protects the BATTERY from feeding the 10 gauge in drawing. Even if the alternator goes the battery can still provide the current.

 

[Daggar]

jrichker gets at what I'm trying to get at guys - unless there's a dead short from battery to ground pulsing throught the 10 gauge - you don't have a problem. And every Stang (most other cars too) are already pregnant with that problem. The only way to protect it is to fuse the 10gauge wires also - whether they're connected to the alternator or the battery. BTW - my PA-Performance alternator came with a boot for that power stud. You'd have to poke through it with something sharp - although Murphy's law says I could probably manage it.

Daggar - "...because if the fuse between the alternator and battery blows then the alternator's ability to feed the battery goes with it. " Absolutely. But nothing protects the BATTERY from feeding the 10 gauge in drawing. Even if the alternator goes the battery can still provide the current.

Gotcha... sometimes it takes me tomes of information and walking through the entire process to make sure I understand the bottom line. hehe In this case, the bottom line seems to be that the feed from the alternator to the battery and the rest of the electrical system is not the largest threat. I'll be looking through the wiring diagrams that jrichker provided link to and see how much protection the stock fusable links provide that 10 guage wire between it and the rest of the electrical system. If it offers good upstream protection then changing the location that it gets power from may eliminate the posibility of those wires cooking from a large differental voltage between the alt and battery (and only that portion). Thank you all for your help!