Engine 4.6 --> 347

Discussion in 'SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech' started by marksolis01, Apr 24, 2013.


  1. marksolis01

    marksolis01 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    bay city, tx
    How '97 GT, 4.6 has the old knock on the top end. Knock does not go away when I remove the plug the injector, sounds does not change. So not wasting time on the 4.6 when I can upgrade to 347 stroker & 6 speed tranny. Needing some ideas what kits or what vendor is the best for my project. Budget is 8k for both.
    #1
  2. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 1985
    Messages:
    20,118
    Showcase:
    58
    Albums:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2,544
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    Box behind Walmart
    347 stroker in a 4.6 block???

    Maybe something I've not heard of before but uh... I don't think so Tim. o_O

    I've heard of 5.0 and 5.1 liter strokers for the modular 4.6 though. :shrug:
    #2
  3. bhuff30

    bhuff30 Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    6,013
    Showcase:
    4
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    89
    Location:
    Olathe KS
    I am sure he is talking about a sbf stroked to 347. Sure, you can, but you sacrifice durability and longevity. The ring pack ends ends up pretty squished and the rod ratio just the other side of awful. I'd recommend no more than 331 if you want to avoid issues with durability and oil consumption.

    If you really want a 302 based block, why not start with a 94-95 stang or even earlier? You'll have to change out so many more parts on the modular based stang, for example the k-member.

    If you are going to keep the 97. you'd probably be better off getting a good used PI engine and throwing on a positive displacement blower. It wouldn't cost as much and you'll make more torque/horsepower.

    And the T56 is way overrated for the cost and effort to install, but hey. Your money. Try asking the 5.0 forum, you'll probably find the input your looking for.
    #3
  4. Nightfire

    Nightfire Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Messages:
    3,598
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    TX
    You're not getting a 347 in there for $8K. There is a reason why you don't see many (or any) OHV big cube motors in these cars.

    As for what Noobz said, you're not going to get anywhere near 347 with a 4.6 block, PERIOD.

    For just over $8K, I've built my 4.6 motor with forged internals, a big D1SC supercharger, a high-stall torque converter, and a completely new fuel system....and I will be putting bus-lengths on your 347 for the same price. Build the 4.6, its your best/cheapest option.
    #4
  5. marksolis01

    marksolis01 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    bay city, tx
    thanks for all of the feed back, I shoulda been more clear on 347, its was on 302 block. New to the 4.6, just read to many issues with the rod bearings failing so much. I'm old school (302), pick up the stang for $900 for a toy for me and the boys. open to the idea of keeping the 4.6, if i can beef up the internals and tranny. Means like more $$$ of other upgrades, @ nightfire love the information...been out of the of the build of engine for 20 yrs. This is going to be daily driver (30 miles round trip) its just for us to put little spoiled brats who can still run. its not a mid life crsis, this car will go to my sons, if I could afford a GTR Skyline would my choice to play with.
    #5
  6. COramprat

    COramprat Drone Driver Mod Dude

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,218
    Showcase:
    21
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Sea of Tranquility
    Doing it yourself? Depending on your expertise check my signature and see if you may like to go that route. My car is pretty stout N/A. I bought it turn key and miss turning my wrenches like I did on my old car but getting a build with my sons would have been great.
    #6
  7. bhuff30

    bhuff30 Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    6,013
    Showcase:
    4
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    89
    Location:
    Olathe KS
    The bottom end is good for 400-425 rwhp, so no worries there, and with a good clutch, the transmission should hold up too. You have the T45, so it doesn't like being power shifted (tends to break shift forks). So in my opinion, the drivetrain is set. The only upgrade there I would recommend is 31 spline axles if you plan to regularly drag race the car at that power level.

    Naturally aspirated, it seems most people can get to the 300-315 rwhp range pretty easily. If your goals are higher, you should consider forced induction, as it is very difficult making more N/A hp at that level.

    Almost any blower with an intercooler should get you to that 400-425rwhp range with the right pulley. It's easy and you can probably pick up the components used and have a running setup for 2-3k all in.
    #7
  8. 95Vert383AOD

    95Vert383AOD Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,300
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    Providence, RI
    You are talking alot of parts to make this work. At this point i would skip the 302 and head straight for a 351 roller. (unless you have a 347 already) You could change the 351 pistons and get an afr/ trickflow 205cc head and easily eclipse the 347 with better reliability and a stronger block.

    If you're building a roller motor with roller rockers the longevity isn't much of an issue. GM 3800 motors are still push rod and they see 250,000+ miles when taken care of. The key with any motor is getting that fuel mixture right. Tune it ASAP whatever you do.

    Chris
    #8
  9. WrenchThrower

    WrenchThrower New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    2
    I'd stay with a mod motor. Time to learn new tricks ;). You can get a reman pretty cheap and put a blower on it and have money left over for other things, saves yourself a huge headache, and the trouble of owning a hacked up car to fit an old v-8 in a modern chassis.
    #9
  10. marksolis01

    marksolis01 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    bay city, tx
    Like the idea of 400-425 rwhp, this task can be complete in a weekend between my son and myself. Looks like I'll keep the 4.6 install some foreged internals, 31 spine axels, & 4.10's. Thanks for all of the ideas & information, keep it coming.
    #10
  11. 95Vert383AOD

    95Vert383AOD Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,300
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    Providence, RI
    94/95 mustangs came with the "old v8 in a modern chassis" The 302 will bolt right up with a 94/95 k-member stock or aftermarket.
    #11
  12. wmburns

    wmburns SN Certified Technician

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,159
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Location:
    Houston Texas
    Just wondering. How do you expect the car to drive after the OHV 302 has been installed? Like a race car or a factory car? I ask because no where in the thread has the plan for engine management been mentioned.

    Items such as spark, fuel (carb or fuel injection) for starters? Is it your plan to replace the stock PCM or to use a stand alone engine management?

    How good is your electrical? How about your custom fab work?

    IMO, this will make a great upgrade thread for anyone else thinking about taking out a mod motor to swap in an "old school" OHV.
    #12
    trinity_gt likes this.
  13. trinity_gt

    trinity_gt Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Messages:
    3,048
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Location:
    Canada
    I wouldn't touch a car with this kind of swap. Backyward swaps, with engines, transmissions, general mechanicals (mounts, accessory drives etc etc), wiring and engine management that are all question marks would, IMO, result in a car that was basically worthless to most people when it came time to move on to something else. This applies moreso if the car is being sold in a state or province where emissions testing is done. You -- or a subsequent owner -- would never pass any sort of inspection with an old engine in a newer chassis.

    Unless you plan on keeping the car forever think hard about "old school" stuff like this. If you want old school, get a Fox coupe or hatch and play with that.
    #13
  14. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash Super Mod

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,414
    Likes Received:
    919
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I guess that depends on your mind set. Personally, I think a swap like this would be a downgrade, not an upgrade. I say save the "old school" engines, for the old school cars.

    I'm with the majority....stick with the mod motor. I'd even skip the forged internals. Pick yourself up a fresh 4.6L from an '02-'04 Ford Explorer (aluminum block vs iron), spend the rest of a blower....don't bother with the bolt ons. Their gains are minimal and expensive. Go for the hard hit right up front! Simple, cost effective and enough of a project for you and your son to get into to make it a worth while effort, but not to much of one that you'll get in over your head with.
    #14
  15. marksolis01

    marksolis01 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    bay city, tx
    Sticking to fuel injection, eletrical stay the same (not hacked up), fab work will be no issue. Not placing the stroker in yet?? Like I expressed.. new to 4.6, just started reading on 4.6...found the MMR site liking the options. Thinking of send my block to MMR to do all of the work, shop here in town will do it for 4K. MMR 4.6 is what I'll be getting here soon. Unlesss you know a shop near Houston or Sealy that can match the MMR site. open to ideas. When I meant old school, I wasn't down grading...like the 302 block, new to the 4.6, I would upgrade to a coyote 5.0 with everything else to go with it. Can't justiy buying a 302 boss now, sending one to college in a few months. This will be our little toy for to tinker with, till I find my Chevelle.
    #15
  16. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash Super Mod

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,414
    Likes Received:
    919
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Unless you're made of money, I'd give up on the Coyote swap idea if you've got a kid to send to college. You'll be into that swap $15K minimum before all is said and done.

    Let's take a giant step back here....as you seem to be all over the place with your idea's. What do you hope to accomplish with the car (daily driver, weekend cruiser, track terror), how much power do you plan on making, how fast do you want to go, how reliable do you want it to be?

    A forged short block sounds like a massive expense just to have a "project" for you and your son to work on together?
    #16
  17. marksolis01

    marksolis01 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    bay city, tx
    I can drop 5K easy for an enigne now, just wanting what is the best route to go. As of horse power 400-450 would be great, with most of the stock wiring, suspension, fuel management...It will be a daily driver, don't have a heavy foot for tearing up the motor or wearing tires.

    My goal for now is to get a strong motor for future my grades..SC'r & axels. Tranny & Clutch are good for now, just looking at the cost of a rebuild for 4K...when MMR sell ones ready to go for 2500. The coyote I agree would be a waste of $$$ when I could get Shelby GT-500 for 60K...sounds good may send the boy to walmart to work..jk.

    Overall not looking for a 10 second car or a track terror. Just there are to many options to go with.
    #17
  18. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash Super Mod

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,414
    Likes Received:
    919
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    IMO, if you're not looking to build a track terror, then springing for a forged short blocks is kind of a waste of money IMO. The stock short block internals will carry you into the 450hp range.

    Your easiest and least expensive route to your goals is going to be a PI engine swap, with a blower. For $5,000, or slightly more, you'll have a running, high-11/low-12-second reliable Mustang put together with minimal downtime.

    I suggested the Explorer engine earlier, because it utilizes the same H/C/I top end as the '01-up GT Mustang and also gives you the benefit of the 70lb weight loss of an aluminum block. Also, wrecking yards tend to jack up the cost when they hear the word "Mustang", but engines out of Explorers, Crown Vics, Marquis, etc tend to fly under the radar.

    That should leave you plenty left over to get into one of the popular supercharger kits by Vortech, Kenne Bell, ATI, Tork Teck, etc. This will be plenty of project for you and your son and it won't take you until he graduates from school to complete and pay for it.

    I went the forged short block/custom route on my last car and it took me well over a year and a lot more than $5,000 to get together....and that was doing all of the work myself. In the end, I lost my shirt when I sold the car.

    We've all got big aspirations for our projects, but take it from some of us that have already been there....the juice isn't worth the squeeze sometimes. Besides...even if you can't shake this forged short block thing, you'll always have your old engine on standby, ready to build up at anytime. That way you can take your time with it and still enjoy your car in the mean time. Remember....a car is worth nothing if it's not being driven. Don't end up like one of these guys http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/anybody-else-experiencing-project-burnout.867004/ because your ambition got your further than you skill set, or budget or patience level allowed you to.
    #18
  19. marksolis01

    marksolis01 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Location:
    bay city, tx

    Well put, forgot about the PI swap. There are plenty of donor cars in my area, let ask this dumb question with this donor engine what other acces will I need to complete this swap...or is there a thread with a step by step.
    #19
  20. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash Super Mod

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,414
    Likes Received:
    919
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    You really shouldn't need much of anything. Since they're both Romeo engines, the timing cover, coil packs, accessories etc from your '97 should transfer right over to the later model short block. You might need a few small odds and ends (that I can't think of right off the top of my head), but nothing drastic.
    #20

Share This Page