4.6 Swap

Discussion in 'SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech' started by ryan281, Jun 6, 2014.


  1. ryan281

    ryan281 New Member

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    I have an 03 gt that I want to pull my engine and automatic trans on and swap it into another . will only 99-04 work with a direct bolt up or what? not too familiar with the diffrences in the earlier year sn95s. would the previous body style work or no? my buddy wants a mustang and i wana get rid of my engine trans and pro charger in one shot. Our plan was to find a car with a blown up engine and swap all my stuff over but wanted to know which years will work. Any info will be appreciated
  2. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    Any motor before 99 is going to be a non-PI motor. If you have to smog it, it may not go over too well (especially without a tune) and it also wont have as much power. My advice is to stick with a 99+ motor. You could also go to a 3v or 4v motor but that isn't exactly a direct bolt in swap.

    If you swap to an earlier ECU you will have PATS problems and also not be able to pass smog (at least not in CA).
  3. wmburns

    wmburns SN Certified Technician

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    Your question is much too vague to give a useful answer. If you are expecting a full on "plug and play" swap for the motor AND transmission then the short answer is "stick to the same model year as the donor".

    TONS of people have swapped the 4.6 motors in a crap load of combinations. But the swap depends upon keeping the electronics of the HOST car.

    Add to this is the PCM and the tune it contains. If trying to retain the PCM as well, then the advice for sticking to the same MY goes double. Putting a PCM from a 2003 into a 1999-2000 will have issues such as no AC.

    Putting a PCM into a 98 and older is not really practical because of the HUGE differences in the base electrical of the cars.

    Note about PATS. Remember unless you want to have PATS re-programmed keep the cluster and PCM together.

    The more restrictive swap may be the transmission. The 98 and older Mustangs uses a VSS sensor. The 99+ uses an OSS sensor. The sensors are NOT compatible to each other. The sensor used must match what the PCM is expecting and the transmission wiring harness.

    There are also differences in the automatic transmission between 04, 03, and 99-01. The differences can be over come with some re-wiring and tune.

    This will depend upon the exact model year combination, the exact parts swapped, and the amount of re-working you are willing to do. Recommend getting a full set of wiring diagrams for the donor and host model years so that the differences can easily be compared.

    Just wondering WHY? Have you wrecked the donor?
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  4. ryan281

    ryan281 New Member

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    I'm own the 03 gt and its not fast enough so I wana do a coyote swap in the car which leaves me to get rid of the engine and trans and blower I have. I figured if I try to sell it by its self I'll get barely any money for it. So I planned taking it all out and putting it in a car with a blown motor so I can sell the whole car to recoup as much money as I can
  5. wmburns

    wmburns SN Certified Technician

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    You didn't state if you are expecting a true "plug and play" swap. If you are, the only way that will occur is if the replacement car is the same MY.

    Otherwise the number of "issues" encountered will depend upon the MY and transmission of the replacement car and exactly WHICH parts are swapped.

    Which begs the question. Why not sell your 2003 outright and BUY a whole new donor car with a blown motor to receive the "upgrades". This removes all of the issues regarding interchange. It seems like a TON less work <presses the easy button>.

    How big is your "budget" for this project?
  6. ryan281

    ryan281 New Member

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    The reason I wanted to keep the car I have and take everything out and do the swap is because it's got sentimental value it was the first car I ever bought. I'm honestly just looking to get rid of my trans engine and blower without getting killed on what I sell it for. With doing the 5.0 swap into my 03 I'm not too limited on price I plan on buying a totalled coyote and swap the engine and trans all together into the 03 and run a kenne bell or make a custom twin turbo kit
  7. wmburns

    wmburns SN Certified Technician

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    Interesting......

    How much HP are you making now? How much HP do you intend to make on the 5.0 Coyote? What (if any) upgrades are planned to the 5.0 itself?

    What are your plans for engine management for the Coyote? IE which PCM will be used to handle engine management duties? The 2003 PCM, the PCM from the 5.0 donor, or stand alone?

    How do you expect the car to drive after the swap is done? IE like a race car (no AC, no power steering, no power brakes) or like a Wife/GF car (factory stock manners)?

    This will make an good build thread.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  8. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    The new 5.0 doesn't have a power steering pump on it so either you will have to switch to manual or you will have to run a special accessory bracket. My friend over at high flow fuel was one of the first people to swap a 5.0 into a fox chassis and he has quite a bit of knowledge. If you need help, let me know any I can put you in touch with him.

    You are also not going to be able to make the factory instrument cluster work with the 5.0 ECU.

    Are you in a state where you will have to worry about a smog check ? In CA, its a royal pain in the butt.
  9. ryan281

    ryan281 New Member

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    Im making about 365 to the wheels . I plan on making 700 or so on the stock long block and eventually making 1200 on a mmr short block. I plan on swapping the pcm from the 5.0 into my 03. I haven't figured out how I can get my cluster and other electronics to work with the coyote harness .
  10. ryan281

    ryan281 New Member

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    After the swap I would like it to drive like a factory car. I live in Illinois by Chicago. I figured I can swap all the emissions stuff that comes with the totaled car so I can pass my emissions test. I have a 650 horsepower duramax Chevy truck and myfriends have fast trucks and I don't wana get beat by trucks anymore. Yes when I get a donor car for the coyote swap I would appreciate it very much if you got me in contact with him
  11. wmburns

    wmburns SN Certified Technician

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    The 5.0 Coyote uses a different CKP sensor located in a different spot on the motor. Other differences include the power steering pump, variable cam timing, knock sensors.

    The electronics for the 2005+ model year are also very different. See drive by wire. Look up "smart junction box" for other example differences. Transplanting the PCM any 2005+ MY into a 2004/older is difficult because the electronics systems that the PCM depends upon are not in place.

    This is why many ppl doing this swap use a stand alone Coyote PCM engine management. This in itself creates problem integrating the "other" car systems to get stock drive-ability. Think automatic transmission, AC, Cruise control, lights, ect.

    I encourage you to research the limits of the Coyote 5.0. It's my understanding it comes with a cast (not forged) crank. There are limits on the pistons and rods as well. Some resources say the limit is 400HP. Others say the limit is 600HP. Either way, 700HP on the stock Coyote will likely need upgrades to reach the planned HP levels day one.

    Obviously the transmission is going to need some "help" as well. Rear end.......

    If 1200 HP is your goal, why not go the route of a "built" 4.6? This avoids all the issues of making an engine management system from a very different era work in an older car. The wiring and PCM that you have now will work with known modifications.

    Disclaimer. Obviously anything can be done with enough $$ and time. So anything is possible. However, it seems to me that if high HP and stock drive-ability are your goals, the Coyote is a more expensive/time consuming/difficult way to get there. If not looking for advice, then just ignore mine and I will drop off. Good luck.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
    trombonedemon likes this.
  12. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    Off the top of my head, the only way I can think of to get the factory cluster working with the new motor is to also run your factory 03 ECU and add extra sensors from the 03 to the new motor. So for example, you would need to either put a T in for the oil pressure or have a second spot on the block to hook up the oil pressure sending unit to.
  13. ryan281

    ryan281 New Member

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    cant i just swap the whole harness and everything electrical from the 5.o car to the 03 including the trans and harness? the cluster would be a pain but wouldnt that be the only problem? yea i know its not going to last at that power level on a stock bottom end. The trans lasting or the engine blowing up or the rear end going out is not really what im worrying about. Im only running the stock long block right away to make sure i can do the swap before i buy a real expensive short block and build the trans.

    I don't really want to use the 4.6 engine because even when it has dohc it seems not able to be as responsive to boost or as efficient to the new 5.0 engine. with doing turbos the chargers will spool faster too with a bigger displacement. I know there are stroker kits for the 4.6 to make a 5.1 or 5.0 but i heard you dont want to add stroke to a forced induction engine.
  14. Nomad GT

    Nomad GT Member

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    The coyote comes with a forged crank.

    http://www.fordracingparts.com/m/part.asp?p=11829
  15. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    That is the Ford racing crate motor. That might not be the case for a standard motor in a GT which is what he is planning on getting.

    If you can swing it, get a wrecked Boss, they have the Road Runner motor in them.
  16. trombonedemon

    trombonedemon Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like this is a troll thread, or the o.p. is is wanting to spend more money for efficacy then what is necessary. Can he do all of the work himself or is he putting together a "gopher" list, or go-for list for a builder? That can get in the 10's of thousands really, really, fast. 4.6 mod is getting slept on.
  17. ryan281

    ryan281 New Member

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    I wana weigh my options before I get started oh which ever build I choose. Im not extremely familiar with mustang builds as I am with diesel trucks. Yes I will be doing it with my buddies.

    So if I went the 4.6 route what about getting a Stroker kit to make it a 5.0 or 5.1 ? Would that be ok with twin turbos pushing over 1000hp? What about switching to dohc would I need a different harness?
  18. ryan281

    ryan281 New Member

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    I wana weigh my options be
    I'm open to any information I only know some stuff about mustangs
  19. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    If you want to know how far you can push these motors stroked or not, give MMR a call. They have TONS of experience with high HP modulars.
    wmburns and trombonedemon like this.
  20. trombonedemon

    trombonedemon Well-Known Member

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    Yea dude, the stock cast-iron block is not gonna hold 1000 h orse power, the 4.6 stock aluminum block (from what I've read) is not gonna hold that much power. You are going to have to order a specially made aluminum block for those type of horses.

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