4 Point Seat Belt without Harness Bar?

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by Scudly, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. Scudly

    Scudly New Member

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  2. classic boost

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    4pts won't work (except for show) with out a harness bar. where would the the shoulder straps anchor to?
     
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  3. Shakin66

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    I am facing the same situation so I would apreciate some mounting pics also.
     
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  4. rebel65

    rebel65 Member

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    there is absolutely no point in a 4 point harness without a roll bar or the like.
     
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  5. Scudly

    Scudly New Member

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    So even though the Corubea belt says they can mount into factory provided mounting points I'd still be SOL?
     
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  6. Scudly

    Scudly New Member

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    Does anyone make a removable harness bar for classic mustangs then? I really do not want to weld in an entire cage or have a permanent harness bar. I know I have friends with modern cars that just can take theres in and out.
     
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  7. The GMR

    The GMR New Member

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    The issue here is safety. I would never put a 4 point harness in a car without the proper cage/ seat mounting setups.

    Here is my reasoning.

    A 4 point harness or any harness for that matter is designed to do one thing and one thing only, keep you in the seat. Without a cage this can be a serious problem in the event of a rollover. The seat and harness will keep you upright while the roof comes down.

    Another problem I see all too often is the improper mounting of the harness belt. The top should be no more than 12 deg down from the shoulder line to the mount. The mount should be as close to the rear of the seat as possible, any slack can yield movement in the case of a rollover. Harness belts will stretch, more than you think. With the bar directly behind the seat, the belt should be about 1.5" below the shoulder line. If the belt is mounted higher then you run the risk of slipping out of the restraint during a rollover. When the belt is mounted to low then the vertebra in your lower back will see the brunt of the force from the rollover causing injury.

    When it comes to the mounting of seats there are also several things to be concerned with. A harness is designed to be used with specific styles of seats. “Stock Replacement” seats are generally not designed to be used with a harness. You need a seat that has proper support in the shoulder region along with something to help restrain your hips. This will keep you body secure in the proper position for the harness to work effectively in the event of a serious rollover. The seat mounts should be more then secure, they need to be part of the chassis / cage. When you put a cage structure in a vehicle you need to secure the seat mounts to the cage structure. This will ensure that if the cage is to move so will the seats. Creating one complete structure in the cab region is important for this reason. I prefer to use 5 or 6 points for mounting seats in road cars. If you only use 4 points the seat has a tendency to flex in a rollover, regardless of the manufacture. If you do use a 4 point seat mount, then it’s especially important to add material to the mounts to create a sold structure. Another issue is the use of sliding seats with harness setups. The teeth or pins in the sliders can break due to excessive force. If the seats are not properly installed then they will cause a failure in the restraint system.

    Although harness setups are cool, they can also be extremely dangerous when they are installed improperly. I don’t want to sound like the safety Nazi, but I see harness setups installed wrong all the time. I have included a few pictures to explain what I’m talking about.

    Safety is always above style, IMO.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    The GMR.
     
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  8. Scudly

    Scudly New Member

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    I'm not debating safety, I just don't want a frigging lapbelt only. But at the same time I don't want a cage, I just don't. My car is almost finally done and I never wanted one, otherwise I would have planned for it when it was down to frame.

    Am I in more danger of only having a lap belt or having a 4 point belt that doesn't use a harness/cage? Because I'm pretty sure if I was in a collision with only a lapbelt, goodbye face.


    So the question then is what is the safe alternative?
     
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  9. S-Car-Go

    S-Car-Go Member

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    I know what you mean. A 10 mph accident with only a lap belt and you eat the steering wheel...

    I've been thinking about these with my recaros.

    4 Point Installation Instructions

    I'm not saying they are anywhere near as safe as a cage and restrain system done proper, but they look better than nothing at all. I don't like the 3 point belt kits for convertibles because they atttach a lot lower than your shoulder which can compress your spine. And I'm not putting a roll bar/cage in my daily driver.
     
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  10. Scudly

    Scudly New Member

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    Exactly.. I actually knew someone in college that it happened to him and left a pretty serious permanent scar. No Thanks!
     
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  11. DJCarbine

    DJCarbine New Member

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    I currently have the lap portion of the harness attached to the factory mounting locations for the lap belt, and the shoulder parts attached to the rear seatbelt mounting points, using a seat with harness slots

    This is holding me untill I get a cage

    Could it possibly be any more dangerous than using the 40 year old lap belts?
     
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  12. Scudly

    Scudly New Member

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    Which harness/belts are you using? Cause I too have the harness slots and was wondering what belts are long enough to do that

    Can you please take some photos?

    And yea, I don't imagine anything could be more dangerous than 40 year old lap belts, except not having anything at all.
     
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  13. DJCarbine

    DJCarbine New Member

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    SCROTHE harness works, I know several people running them as well in other street cars. If I remember correctly, they are the only harness available that is DOT legal
     
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  14. Scudly

    Scudly New Member

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    Schroth Racing Harnesses

    Is that what you have? My co-worker with a Mini Type S was telling me he has a set of SCROTHE Quick Fit in his car.
     
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  15. 6Stang7

    6Stang7 New Member

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  16. 10secgoal

    10secgoal Active Member

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    I'd go 3 pnt if no rear bar. NHRA doesn't allow it like that because you will essentially fold in half between your legs if the shoulders aren't done correctly. Scar on head, broken back ?
     
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  17. bnickel

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  18. Cobra5.0Jeep

    Cobra5.0Jeep Member

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    I am in the same boat but i have a roll bar i just don't want to put my cross bar in, i have the cross bar setup so i can take it out and stuff. NHRA rules say the cross bar has to be at shoulder height. I haven't installed my front seats yet so i am not sure where shoulder height is but if its somewhere where my plastic is i am not cutting my plastic interior pieces to fit a cross bar in.
     
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  19. Cobra5.0Jeep

    Cobra5.0Jeep Member

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  20. Cobra5.0Jeep

    Cobra5.0Jeep Member

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    Someone told me once that if i put a 4pt harness in my car without the cross bar and just having the 4 point attached to the floor of the car behind the seat that if i was in an accident that the harness would crush my spine because of the harness being too low behind the seat/my shoulders and it would be pulling me down instead of back if it was on the cross bar. Anyone know anything about that?
     
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