Hi, I've got an 67 C4 Coupe with a 5.0 roller motor. I would like to do a conversion to a 4 speed toploader somewhere down the line. I figure I'm going to need a a good many parts so I can start hunting them down now. Could someone provide a list of everything I will need for this conversion? Or show me where I can find the information?
4 Speed Toploader Conversion Parts List
- Thread starter pyroman
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you will need the top loader with the shifter mounts for the mustang, the bell housing for the top loader, can also be a 3.03 bell also since they share the same bolt pattern, a shifter for the top loader in the mustang, a flywheel that fits your 302 with the proper balance factor, as well as the rest of the clutch pieces, and the clutch linkage and clutch pedal. most of the parts are available from places line national parts depot, autokrafters, and virginia classic miustang to name a few. if your block is drilled and tapped for the Z bar mount the you are good to go, otherwise you will need an adapter that is available. you will also need the chassis mount for the Z bar as well. i have a top loader four speed that fits a mustang, and a bell housing. the trans does need rebuilding though.
Thanks for the response. How much would you want for your toploader? Is it a wide ratio or short ratio? Do you know how much the rebuild kits cost? Also, where do I look or how do I know if my block is drilled and tapped for the Z-Bar mount?
One other thing, I have the center console for an automatic car. I don't want to mar it up in order to do a manual but then again I don't want it to look unfinished. What have, if any of you, have done to convert a center console car? Does it look right if you ditch the automatic stuff and just shove a shifter through there? Pics might help. Sorry for all the rambling questions but I appreciate it.
One other thing, I have the center console for an automatic car. I don't want to mar it up in order to do a manual but then again I don't want it to look unfinished. What have, if any of you, have done to convert a center console car? Does it look right if you ditch the automatic stuff and just shove a shifter through there? Pics might help. Sorry for all the rambling questions but I appreciate it.
If you don't have anything I recommend that you put in a T5 instead. You will really appreciate the OD and the lower first gear. Modern Driveline has a complete list of parts on their website. I'll bet it doesn't cost any more than the toploader setup. Rebuilding a toploader is not cheap.
If you just HAVE to have a toploader then do not, do not, DO NOT get a close ratio. They suck on the street. And a Hurst shifter is a MUST - the factory shifter sucks. $400 for a new toploader Hurst shifter but only $150 for a really good shifter for a T5.
You did not mention your rear gear. Could have to be changed for best performance.
As for the console - it is just not going to work. If the shifter hole in the carpet is too big then you will have to replace the carpet. The factory boot looks good.
If you just HAVE to have a toploader then do not, do not, DO NOT get a close ratio. They suck on the street. And a Hurst shifter is a MUST - the factory shifter sucks. $400 for a new toploader Hurst shifter but only $150 for a really good shifter for a T5.
You did not mention your rear gear. Could have to be changed for best performance.
As for the console - it is just not going to work. If the shifter hole in the carpet is too big then you will have to replace the carpet. The factory boot looks good.
ditto what 68RCodeConv said .... cost delta between rebuilding a top-loader and new T5z (and make sure it's a "z") could be a wash .... plus you could go with a cable clutch with a T5 bellhousing .... depends on the year of the 302 block for the z-bar boss .... toploaders are very strong though .... expect to spend the about the same for either tranny conversion .... auto console is a non-starter, but you can get a repro manual console - more $$ .... sounds like a fun project -- good luck !!
my top loader is a wide ratio trans, the most common. as for price, i would take $250 plus shipping for the trans and the bell housing. last i knew a rebuild kit was around $200, you can get one from a place like david kee top loaders.
as for checking your block for the Z bar mount, on the driver side of the block along the bell housing flange, you should see a tapped hole that is perpendicular to the crank center line just above the oil pan line. it will be an obvious hole.
as for your console issue, check with places like national parts depot, autokrafters, and virginia classic mustang for the proper shifter insert for the console. the consoles are all the same except for the shifter opening insert.
by the way, as much as i would like to get rid of my top loader, unless you are building an old school project, i also recommend using the T5. you can use a lower rear gear ratio, and still have a decent cruise rpm on the street.
Oh man, alot to consider. I appreciate the advice from everyone. My main reason for wanting a Toploader is they are nearly indestructable. My car isn't overpowered by any means at this point but later down the road I'd like to be pushing 400-450 HP. I've thought about the T5 but have heard alot about how comparitively weak they are. Sounds like if I go for the best of of the best T5 450 HP and about 330 lb-ft will be it's ultimate limit.
Overdrive is a nice option though, I know how annoying driving a C4 at highway speeds can be and with the Toploader it wouldn't be any better, although swapping my rear gears could help that.
One question about a T5 install though. Will the shifter from the T5 align with the shifter hole in the transmission tunnel on my 67? Or will I have to cut another hole?
That does sounds like a good deal rbohm, do you know the ID tag on it? I'll have to give it some more thought. I was figuring the decision would be easier than this, haha.
Overdrive is a nice option though, I know how annoying driving a C4 at highway speeds can be and with the Toploader it wouldn't be any better, although swapping my rear gears could help that.
One question about a T5 install though. Will the shifter from the T5 align with the shifter hole in the transmission tunnel on my 67? Or will I have to cut another hole?
That does sounds like a good deal rbohm, do you know the ID tag on it? I'll have to give it some more thought. I was figuring the decision would be easier than this, haha.
woodsnake
15 Year Member
You can thumb thru these pages, they will show you what you need.
Mustangs Unlimited - '65-73 Cougar Performance Restoration & Accessory Parts Online Virtual Catalog: Page 105
Mustangs Unlimited - '65-73 Cougar Performance Restoration & Accessory Parts Online Virtual Catalog: Page 105
You're going to loose a couple hundred rpms with the Toploader vs the C-4. No slippage to deal with in a clutch vs a torque converter.
If your drivetrain is right, now, the T5 lever will come up through the stock boot. With the right knob and lever, people might think it was stock until they notice a "5" in the shift pattern.
Dunno why they have the boot pulled up in this photo.
i have no clue on the id tag as it was missing many years ago. as for the T5 being weak, not so much with the later models. grab one from a 90-93 mustang as they are the most up to date models. i have seen non world class T5's live behind 10 second cars with no issues, and i have seen people break the Z spec T5 with a stock engine. it really depends on you the driver as to how long a T5 will last.
i have seen people who can put a saginaw four speed from behind an aluminum vega four cylinder behind a very healthy big block and not have any breakage issures, and i have seen people who can take a lenco from a pro stock car, and put it behind a sickly four banger, and break the lenco.
I think you guys might have convinced me to go with the T5 so I'll move onto my next question. What kind of options do I have for pedal assemblies? As I understand it the manual pedal assembly is the same as the auto just with the extra clutch pedal. They way it's set up it isn't very good for spirited driving (i.e. heel and toeing). I've heard of potentially swapping in the pedal assembly from a 5.0. Anyone do this? Any other options out there?
woodsnake
15 Year Member
If you look at the catalog, it has all the parts to swap either a T5 or a toploader.
Mustangs Unlimited - The Premier Source for Mustang, Shelby and Cougar Parts and Accessories
Now you need to think either cable or hydraulic for the trans.
Also, as I'm learning this now my self, make sure you get the right drive gear and driven gear so that you can have an accurate speedometer...
When the guys at the shop "fabbed" up my trans mount, they flipped the mount front to back, and welded on some tabs. It works, but it's ugly. I would have got the tube type one instead.
Keep doing your research, there are a TON of threads and web pages devoted to the swap.....
Mustangs Unlimited - The Premier Source for Mustang, Shelby and Cougar Parts and Accessories
Now you need to think either cable or hydraulic for the trans.
Also, as I'm learning this now my self, make sure you get the right drive gear and driven gear so that you can have an accurate speedometer...
When the guys at the shop "fabbed" up my trans mount, they flipped the mount front to back, and welded on some tabs. It works, but it's ugly. I would have got the tube type one instead.
Keep doing your research, there are a TON of threads and web pages devoted to the swap.....
woodsnake
15 Year Member
I have the Mustang Steve pedals in my car, and I don't love them. They kind of require 'chick feet' to work them. I would rather have kept the stock clutch pedal, but would have had to acquire or mod my manual brake pedal to fit. So, yes, there are options, but the stock stuff doesn't do a bad job....
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