460 turbo ???

[Michael Yount]

We can go for a while guys. We're primarily talking about relatively mildly built street/drag race motors here. So tell me again - if you can have the same amount of HP/torque, why do you want it to weigh more?

Assuming turning and stopping is involved, most of you seem to understand the rationale for less weight - even Smock. Love ya Smock. Relax. And yes, there are lots of people on the forums that are interested in having their cars stop and turn as well as they accelerate.

But even for drag racing, there's really only one reason to go big block. And that's economics. You may be able to build more power/torque more economically. As for me - I'll spend the extra money and take the weight break.

Don't misunderstand me guys. I'm not putting down big blocks. I'm just REAL CLEAR that I have no interest in them. Those of you that like 'em heavy - go for it.

And that's what the forums are for and when they're at their best. When all the different perspectives about a topic can be brought to light - not just the perspectives we like or agree with.

And for those of you getting riled up (Smock - you know who you are), chill. This crap isn't important at all - it's nothing to get excited about. They're still blowing up each other in the Middle East. Kids in this country go to bed hungry every night. That's the kind of stuff that's important. Getting excited over a big block vs. small block exchange is a total waste of energy which could be much better spent on really important stuff.

Night all!

 

[poneypower89]

What up with all the meaningless pics of big blocks (90notch)? They aren't helping ****tystang see how one sits in a fox body

Anyways, Yount... just out of curiousity.... can you take a 800 HP 302 downtown to McDonalds and expect it to have good street manners? And if you can, is it gonna to be even close to economical to produce?

Yes, big blocks weigh quite a bit. But I think ****tystang was looking for an economical and realiable way to produce 800 hp in streetable forms. In this case, is a 302 really what he needs? Some good weight transfer techniques, and the elimination of unneeded accessories, along with lightweight egine parts the 460 in a fox body can be light enough to be *decent* in the braking and turning form. By no means as good as a 302, but close enough to be worth the price ya know?

 

[SPEED FREAK]

Here is more math.... It is not possible to get as much power out a 302 as it is a 460. And in no way possible to get as much torque. all things being equal the 460 will still put out more just because of the displacement if nothing else. I use a small block because like yount i wanted to stop and turn a bit for some exciting street maners. However if I were to be building a street/strip straight line car you bet your ass a big block would go in there. I will take the 100 lb weight penalty for the extra 200 ft lbs right out of the box any day. Weighs 25% more and puts out 200% doesn't sound like a bad deal to me .

 

[SmockDoiley]

Dont even bother talking to Yount because he is close minded when it comes to stepping out of the realm of the 302. I've come to realize that anyone who drives a Volvo will never listen to my advice. Plain and simple, 100 extra pounds will not "ruin" the driving characteristics of the mustang. You even stated that the mustang is a pathetic driver so why are you so concerned now about installing a big block. And my ass you'll get a 302 to pull the power of a 460 without spending big. Your so ignorant. And yes I know about Iraq because 5.5 years in the Marine Corps and a few scars later I've learned enough. I dont even know why I keep stating this stuff because you keep coming back with the same crap. I guess the Viper is crap too because its sporting a big block. The Lightning is a big truck but it seems to stop and corner just fine. Stop feeding me this crap about the mustang turning to sh--it after getting a bigger motor. No, you know what, your right. Forget the 460, go spend the $2000 on an aluminum 302 block, $1500 on a forged rotating assy, $1000 on machine work, $1800 on heads, and $3000 on a power adder. Thats much better now. You'll shave alot of weight now because your wallet is much lighter. I havent even gotten into the cooling system, fuel injection performance parts, exhaust, and so on. Because it takes a hell of a lot of good expensive parts to get a 302 to 800 or more horses. A 460 is streetable, reliable, fuel efficient, and relativaly light if you try and not be close minded like some folks on here. Get your nose out of a book and into a real project before you keep talking bull crap in here Yount. By the way Yount, what cornering are you talking about because last I saw you didnt condone street racing and the only way cornering is dangerous is when your way over the speed limit. As for legal racing, I dont ever see anyone on here talking about autocross. And braking, ever heard of brake upgrade kits because if 30 year old cars that weigh 2 tons can stop with this motor, I'm sure a mustang with modern upgraded brakes can. Use your brain for a change and stop thinking so one-sidedly.

 

[ExplodingGopher]

Here we go again....lol. i think i had like an 8 page thread going on this topic when i decided to go with a 466. But i calculated FOR ME, its actually cheaper to build my BBF than go supercharger, manual 302. It will be mostly street driven daily, my parts list adds up to around $3600 for every little part for the swap. I am a ford racing dealer. I just have to find a machine shop to balance my eagle rods and KB pistons now, then let the swap begin.

For a crap load of info for everything on BBF and foxes, 390-460, go here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/85220

Heres my engine as of start of this winter:

[size=+2]Old pistons and rods in this pic:[/size]

 

[ExplodingGopher]

Right click and save as. Heres three vids of a big block fox. Its a 429.

http://www.northcoastmusclecar.com/images/movies/zillarun.wmv

http://www.northcoastmusclecar.com/images/movies/429fox_vs_ricer.wmv

http://www.northcoastmusclecar.com/images/movies/zillaidle.mpg

 

[Sage427]

Man you are starting to really piss me off. Yeah, I've gone to college, I understand math and science. But you all are making it sound like death incarnate to put a large motor in a car. You can make any power you want with any motor, but it'll cost you. To make 500 horses in a 302 you need beefy internals which cost money. And to get the power you can get with a 460, you need a $1500-2000 block and a forged rotating assy which will run you $1500 after the machine shop is done with you. Now we havent even gotten into the heads yet. So use the math you are talking about. As for weight distribution, raise your hand if your using your mustang for autocross!! I doubt anybody here is, and if you are, more power to you for running a smaller motor. Obviously the 460 wont do in that situation. Your bringing in weight to explain something he doesnt even care about. He wants a weekend warrior thats reliable enough to drive if he needs to. Did he say anything about autocross and lots of corners, no. I'm not stupid and I know the 460 isn't better than a small block when it comes to open racing, but who here does that? Besides, if like you say the mustang is so bad to begin with, than why do you care if he throws a LITTLE more weight on the front end. You make it sound like hes adding 500 lbs. Get over it, your right and wrong at the same time. Your points are somewhat right though exaggerated, but your points dont apply. I guess if your so right, we are all driving around in death traps and the only way to correct it is to go buy all aluminum 302s and shove em back 6 inches and lower the car. God, I should stop driving my stock 95 right now because its so dangerous and cant corner at all. Imagine all those poor 03 Cobra guys with steeda suspension upgrades, they could run off the road right now because that car cant corner at all with all that weight up front. Give me a break!!

Amen Bro! lol



shttygtstang,

i'm also not knocking s/b's either and no flame to provoke anyone here, but if you want a weekend "WARRIOR" go with the big block! and yes, for the power output cost wise a big block will do you justice. No, i don't have a BB in my stang. What i'm saying here may not mean too much to you, but this is just my own experience. i'm running a BB in my other rig (street/strip). it was originially a s/b 350. then last year I converted it over. i'm not trying to compare apples and oranges with 2 different cars here, but just the torque of a BB (chevy or ford) is brutal. yes, brutal on gas as well but IMO thats just an outside factor based on your main goal (or atleast that was my perspective). that torque comes in handy going up hills. Ever had a Z28/SS or cobra coming up along side you wondering what you have? They don't have to wonder, just downshift and floor it as far as weight goes, um i really don't care is it noticeable, a little but nothing i couldn't handle before heard the sound of one? it's awesome! my friends know when i'm coming, people twist their necks to look at what just pulled up next to them, cops wish they were chasing you instead of those rice burning bubble bees (jk on that one ). Being able to take out about 80% of any 4 wheel vehicle you come across from the front line (providing you don't live in a town with an abundance of Lambo's & Ferraris oh hell just add boost)

Really the only downside to a BB IMO, i wouldn't use them for top speed applications or high rev'n. though i'm sure there would be a few people to debate that, but i'm sure they would have adequate knowledge and skill to do so. Back then it would have probably been out of the question to use a BB due to parts, cost, and availibility, but now there are so many aftermarket parts for them that it wouldn't be that big of a deal to build a streetable monster I hope this post helps you out. Bottom line, you could factor in physics or just the every day driving experience of the "WOW" factor that science cannot give you! peace out

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Rather than contribute to a battle of egos, I found a site with pics of a twin turbo EFI 460 in a Fairmont, which is as we know a Fox3 chassis. Its from a link I followed through toohighpsi.com :TT Fairmont

And for the record, an iron headed 460 weighs in at 720lbs while an iron headed 5.0 tips the scale at 450.

For a setup you have two options: fit a couple small turbos wherever you can or wedge a big single in there and plumb around it. Since there are a number of smallblocks running a blowthrough setup into the 800+hp range, I dont see how it could be hard with 109-158 more inches. A 750 Holley with annular boosters, etc would probably get you there, but a little more carb wouldnt hurt.

 

[poneypower89]

Rather than contribute to a battle of egos, I found a site with pics of a twin turbo EFI 460 in a Fairmont, which is as we know a Fox3 chassis. Its from a link I followed through toohighpsi.com :TT Fairmont

And for the record, an iron headed 460 weighs in at 720lbs while an iron headed 5.0 tips the scale at 450.

For a setup you have two options: fit a couple small turbos wherever you can or wedge a big single in there and plumb around it. Since there are a number of smallblocks running a blowthrough setup into the 800+hp range, I dont see how it could be hard with 109-158 more inches. A 750 Holley with annular boosters, etc would probably get you there, but a little more carb wouldnt hurt.

Yep, and if you looked hard enough I posted that link earlier

But i agree, a slightly larger carb wouldn't hurt.

 

[shttygtstang]

well who thinks i should go head with this
it seems like a better bang fer the buck than building a nother 302

We can go for a while guys. We're primarily talking about relatively mildly built street/drag race motors here. So tell me again - if you can have the same amount of HP/torque, why do you want it to weigh more?

Assuming turning and stopping is involved, most of you seem to understand the rationale for less weight - even Smock. Love ya Smock. Relax. And yes, there are lots of people on the forums that are interested in having their cars stop and turn as well as they accelerate. Night all!

i think ide have a more relible 460tt than a stroked 302/351
and as far as wieght what a few hundred pounds if you can and 400 etra horse and still be not on the brim of snapping a block

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

As for weight distribution, raise your hand if your using your mustang for autocross!!

OK...... *NOT TRYING TO ARGUE* .....but i am It's just a slow build.

 

[poneypower89]

well who thinks i should go head with this
it seems like a better bang fer the buck than building a nother 302



i think ide have a more relible 460tt than a stroked 302/351
and as far as wieght what a few hundred pounds if you can and 400 etra horse and still be not on the brim of snapping a block

Well... DID YOU LOOK AT THAT TWIN TURBO 460 FAIRMONT!

I think that speaks for itself.... do it man... and do it BIG!

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Yep, and if you looked hard enough I posted that link earlier

My bad. I see it now. I missed it when I was skimming past the abundance of unrelated pictures up there . I guess we're just on the same wavelength.

Something else worth mentioning, if it hasnt been already, is the blowthrough/carb forum @ Turbomustangs.com.

 

[shttygtstang]

Something else worth mentioning, if it hasnt been already, is the blowthrough/carb forum @ Turbomustangs.com.

y go through all that work and just spenp the money to know its done right by getting a carb incloser .linky http://www.capa.com.au/vortech_performance_carby.htm

 

[TT91]

Why not just do a turbo small block, much better gas milage, easier to work on/get parts for, less weight...bla bla bla and will provide more then enough hp for u.

 

[TT91]

well who thinks i should go head with this
it seems like a better bang fer the buck than building a nother 302



i think ide have a more relible 460tt than a stroked 302/351
and as far as wieght what a few hundred pounds if you can and 400 etra horse and still be not on the brim of snapping a block

I think you should go hang out on www.turbomustangs.com for a bit, talk to some of the members, see their numbers and combos, and learn a few things about the power potential and reliability of 302 based motors.

 

[shttygtstang]

I think you should go hang out on www.turbomustangs.com for a bit, talk to some of the members, see their numbers and combos, and learn a few things about the power potential and reliability of 302 based motors.

i didnt sell every thing in my sig to do a sb im kidda set on a 460 now if its gunna be turboed or na is my ? i have ta ask my self

 

[TT91]

what is your goal, why a 460? Just to be different, easy hp,?

 

[shttygtstang]

yes easy hp thats all , without worrying abought splitting another block

 

[TT91]

yes easy hp thats all , without worrying abought splitting another block

I see the f-303 camshaft in your sig..Did you know the Brent, a moderator on TM.com made 1100hp with a R-block 302, F-Cam,TFS Hi Port Heads, 88mm turbo, and a Home made turbo kit with a 750 carb...its his daily driver too....go for that BIG BLOCK, and watch the lil small block guys give u a run for your money.

http://www.turbomustangs.com/redirects/project.htm