5.0 Engine Quits

masonjar

Member
Apr 19, 2015
37
1
8
East TN
HiYa. Just got finished with my oil pump and oil pan gasket replacement. Did the timing cover also cause it was leaky. Put in a new radiator and electric fan while I was at it. Got most of that worked out. Still a few things to do to clean that up and make it more my way. Now for the real thing. I am having trouble with my motor dying at any time. Usually after it warms up to normal temps it just quits. Lately it has been starting right back up after I turn the key off and back on. When this first started happening it might start back up or I would have to wait awhile till it felt like starting. I pulled the codes and am getting 18, 33, and 63. The 18 and 63 just showed up today after I reset the TPS. Now I was asking myself where to start? I have read the post about checking the wiring to trace problems down. And that seems like a long drawn out time consuming process that I will have trouble following. Does anyone have any ideas to help lead me quickly to the problem? And on the code 33, I don't seem to have any vacuum at the EGR valve. I have not been able to find out why that is yet. I had thought I did something bad when I jacked the motor up to get to the oil pump but can't find anything. If nothing else I will just have to go by the step by step way and start chasing wires. I had the battery out for a few days and did it run really bad for awhile on the first couple of cranks but I think that was just the computer relearning it's job. Anything will help.
Just in case. My car is a 1990 Mustang GT mostly stock.
 
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How bad do you want to drive the car? You can spend $50 -$120+ for a new TFI. OR you can do the diagnostic work.

Code 18 - SPOUT out or wiring fault - look for short to ground in SPOUT wiring going
back to the computer. Possible bad TFI or defective 22 K resistor in the IDM wiring.

Use a timing light to check the timing: remove the SPOUT and observe that the timing retards at least 4 degrees. Put the SPOUT back in place and observe that the spark advances at least 4 degrees.
This code can disable spark advance and reduce power and fuel economy.

Remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector.
There is a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place.
Disconnect the TFI module connector from the TFI and the measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire and ground.
You should see greater than 100 K (100000) ohms.
Check the resistance from Pin 4 on the computer connector (dark green/yellow) and the dark green/yellow wire on the TFI connector. You should see 20-24 K Ohms (20,000-24,0000 ohms). The resistor is located in the wiring harness about 6” from the connector. You will need solder and heat shrink to replace the resistor if it is bad.
Next measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire on the TFI module connector and Pin 36 on the computer connector. With the SPOUT plug in place, you should see less than 2 ohms.

The following is a view from the computer side of the computer connector.
eec-iv-computer-connector-for-5-0-mustang-gif.88243


This diagram is the wire side of the computer connector.
a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316


Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif




Code 33 - Insufficient EGR flow detected.
Look for vacuum leaks, cracked vacuum lines, failed EGR vacuum regulator. Check to see if you have 10” of vacuum at the EGR vacuum connection coming from the intake manifold. Look for electrical signal at the vacuum regulator solenoid valves located on the rear of the passenger side wheel well. Using a test light across the electrical connector, it should flicker as the electrical signal changes. Remember that the computer does not source any power, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.
Check for resistance between the brown/lt green wire on the EGR sensor and pin 27 on the computer: you should have less than 1.5 ohm.

Backside view of the computer wiring connector:
a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif


EGR test procedure courtesy of cjones

to check the EGR valve:
bring the engine to normal temp.

connect a vacuum pump to the EGR Valve or see the EGR test jig drawing below. Connnect the test jig or to directly to manifold vacuum.

Do not connect the EGR test jig to the EVR (Electronic Vacuum Regulator).


apply 5in vacuum to the valve. Using the test jig, use your finger to vary the vacuum

if engine stumbled or died then EGR Valve and passage(there is a passageway through the heads and intake) are good.

if engine did NOT stumble or die then either the EGR Valve is bad and/or the passage is blocked.

if engine stumbled, connect EGR test jig to the hose coming off of the EGR Valve.
Use your finger to cap the open port on the vacuum tee.
snap throttle to 2500 RPM (remember snap the throttle don't hold it there).
did the vacuum gauge show about 2-5 in vacuum?
if not the EVR has failed

EGR test jig
egr-test-jig-gif.58022


The operation of the EGR vacuum regulator can be checked by using a test light applied across the wiring connector. Jumper the computer into self test mode and turn the key on but do not start the engine. You will hear all the actuators (including the EVR vacuum regulator) cycle. Watch for the light to flicker: that means the computer has signaled the EGR vacuum regulator successfully.




Code 63 - Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) signal too low.

Revised 02-Jul-2009 to update TPS setting procedure & add 10 pin connector layout.

Vref missing (5 volt reference voltage supplied by the computer), bad connections or damaged wiring, TPS sensor failed, TPS sensor way out of adjustment. Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the Orange wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the Orange wire on the EGR or MAP/Baro sensor located on the firewall near the center of the car. If there is +5 volts on the MAP/Baro sensor, but not on the EGR, clean the #2 & #5 pin on the white 10 pin connector. If there is +5 volts on the EGR but not on the TPS, look for bad wiring inside the engine fuel injector harness.

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
salt-pepper-10-pin-connectors-65-jpg.68512


Setting the TPS voltage
You'll need a Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job.

Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

Always use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage.

Do the test with the ignition switch in the Run position without the engine running.

Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.
Setting the TPS: you'll need a good Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job. Set the TPS voltage at .5- 1.1 range. Because of the variables involved with the tolerances of both computer and DVM, I would shoot for somewhere between .6 and 1.0 volts. Unless you have a Fluke or other high grade DVM, the second digit past the decimal point on cheap DVM’s is probably fantasy.

Since the computer zeros out the TPS voltage every time it powers up, playing with the settings isn't an effective aid to performance or drivability. The main purpose of checking the TPS is to make sure it isn't way out of range and causing problems.

The Orange/White wire is the VREF 5 volts from the computer. You use the Dark Green/Lt green wire (TPS signal) and the Black/White wire (TPS ground) to set the TPS. Use a pair of safety pins to probe the TPS connector from the rear of the connector. You may find it a little difficult to make a good connection, but keep trying. Put the safety pins in the Dark Green/Lt green wire and Black/White wire. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Run position but the engine isn't running.

Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

The TPS is a variable resistor, much like the volume control knob on a cheap radio. We have all heard them crackle and pop when the volume is adjusted. The TPS sensor has the same problem: wear on the resistor element makes places that create electrical noise. This electrical noise confuses the computer, because it expects to see a smooth increase or decrease as the throttle is opened or closed.

TPS testing: most of the time a failed TPS will set code 23 or 63, but not always. Use either an analog meter or a DVM with an analog bar graph and connect the leads as instructed above. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position, but do not start the engine. Note the voltage with the throttle closed. Slowly open the throttle and watch the voltage increase smoothly, slowly close the throttle and watch the voltage decrease smoothly. If the voltage jumps around and isn’t smooth, the TPS has some worn places in the resistor element. When the throttle is closed, make sure that the voltage is the same as what it was when you started. If it varies more than 10%, the TPS is suspect of being worn in the idle range of its travel.[/b]
 
HiYa. Thanks for the reply and the info jrichker and as they just might as well said... WOW! Over my head a lot of it. I am just a simple kinda guy more mechanic than electrical. There is something about written words (like instructions) that my brain just cannot decipher. Just some kind of undiagnosed mental disorder. I will type a few sentences then look back and see letters and words switched around and have to go back and correct. Been this way all my life. At this time I am not worried about the EGR. Would not cause this problem. Just rough running. I went by your instructions for the resistance test but my results were...well lets just say unsatisfactory. I would do better with a diagram of how than reading how. And if I replace the resistor do I have to put it in the same place or can I install it any where in the line? Now the TFI I am thinking you mean the ignition control module. I have replaced the distributor after this problem started and have swapped out that ICM. And what by the way is the difference between the ICM for the auto against the 5-speed one? Any way I have yet to resolve this. And it driving me nuts. I really need to be able to drive this car. It has been my daily for the last two years and I had no problem with it till now. When the car dies now it has no fire to the plugs and will not start at all till I turn the key off and then back on. Then it cranks right back up like nothing was going on. Key off then on what does that reset? Fuel pressure is good. I can find no bad wires anywhere. TPS is acceptable. Works a little rough sliding up and down after all the years but not bad.
Well I have run on and on. Thanks again.
SeeYA.
 
HiYa. You know I think I have fixed this problem. I have driven the car for 3 days and it has not died once. And the fix was so simple for this instance. And the answer is (drum roll if you please) Thermal Paste. Take the stuff they give you in the ignition module package and throw it away. Get some good high quality Thermal Paste and use it instead. I have some Arctic Silver 5 that I use on my Desktop's CPU that I put on there. Just a thin complete coat is all I used. I had tried two different modules using the thermo they give you but it did not work the way it needed to. I was looking around to do the remote mount and had taken the module off and when I reinstalled it I put the on good stuff. I think I am still going to do the remote mount, I mean it's on the way, in the mail as I type. So, use the good stuff. You will thank yourself later.

PS. Don't you hate it when there has been a discussion of a problem OP is having and the OP comes back and says something like "Never mind. I fixed it" and that is all?

SeeYa.